ACOG? Which model? 14.5, 16, or 20'' AR best for it? Long range precision made easy?

[alfred10]

http://www.manventureoutpost.com/pro...7DTA51-Mt.html

I want to learn precision shooting but dont want to learn all the crazy adjustments. How many yards can you shoot with an ACOG without adjusting for anything? What range difference is there between a 14.5 inch Colt M4, 16 inch Colt M4, and 20 inch M16? Will any make shooting distance alot easier?

Is the AR the best platform to put an ACOG on?

Which ACOG where combat tested and approved? Im guessing 4x is the magnification I should use. How much skill does it take to use an ACOG when compared to a traditional Leupold Mark 4 Tactical? Can I use the same ACOG on a 16 and 14.5 inch rifle? I am under the impression that these make 500-700 yard prescion shooting reachable for novice shooters?

How would you use one under 50 yards if you where in a fire fight?

[TehLlama]

The ACOG was built around the AR to a degree - short eye relief, day/night illumination, mounted optic height - but that's not that major a concern.

Learning precision rifle skills starts just as much with iron sights as it would with combat or higher powered glass. If having to learn math and use clicks on glass is going to dissuade you, this may not be your game.

I know I can take an M4 with TA31 off the rack and make hits at 550yds using M855 no problem, but I doubt I couldn't do as well for exclusive long range use taking a fudd Leupold VX-II with duplex reticle and running it. Flexibilty is where the ACOG shines, which usually isn't as necessary on a rig for shooting farther out in the .223 ballistic envelope.

For the dual illuminated ACOGs, the BAC (using the bright illuminated center of the reticle as a focus point and treating it like an occluded eye gunsight until the magnified image in your other eye becomes clearer) works well for a lot of people (horribly for folks with mixed eyesight).
I'm not sure how those two applications would overlap for you though - a 16" all-purpose carbine is all I can figure you'd need that for.

Longer barrel means more velocity - makes a bigger difference past 500m.
A 14.5" barrel can still put bullets into a tight group at 600m, but lethality even with OTM rounds starts falling off fast.
A 20" barrel, or even 24" would be great for F class, but only really shines because of marginally increased fragmentation range - having had the privilege of humping an M16 in and out of armored vehicles, it's probably not a #1 choice.
The 16" and 18" intermediate barrels are probably what you're after.
The optics in this range will be anything from the 3.5x TA11 up to a 2.5-10x or higher magnification - there's too many options to break this down, and you don't have to be stuck with the ACOG.

ACOGs fill a niche for high durability optics that aid with target discrimination (4x zoom, good glass) and BDC reticles for reasonably fast hits at longer range - not so much precision hits at range. They're a great pairing for military carbines, but as good as they are the variable zoom tubes will surpass them in the near future (See TR-24 from Trijicon)

Still, it's not a hardware question. To make consistent hits past 300m it's going to take an acceptable grasp of the physics behind it, practice with wind; luckily this can be learned in a short time.

[alfred10]

Does an ACOG get adjusted as much as a traditional scope? I was under the impression that the ACOG shot out to 500 meters without having to adjust anything.

[TehLlama]

(For the TA31F/RCO
You zero it at 100m (or use a different aiming point).
The top of the chevron id POI for 100m. The bottom of the tip is for 200m (pretty close for 50)
The top of the stadia (that's still illuminated) is 300, then each of the descending hash marks is another 100 (the 4 and 6)

The POI is set, instead you're aiming up (at longer range) by using a lower part of the reticle. Same applies for windage, it's kentucky style but works pretty well.

This, as opposed to using turrets to adjust it to where you're hitting POA.

[Chameleox]

Does an ACOG get adjusted as much as a traditional scope? I was under the impression that the ACOG shot out to 500 meters without having to adjust anything.

Depends on how accurate you want to be at 500, and for what purpose. Given the system variables in barrel length, muzzle devices, and ammunition, I'd consider the crosshairs beyond 300 as "guidelines". That's not factoring in wind, any elevation/angles, and other environmental variables you might be dealing with.
I have 2 work guns; a 16" Colt with an ACOG/red dot, and a 20" Armalite with a 3.5-10 Leupold. If I need to bail out fast, or I'm certain I'm not going past, say, 200, I grab the Colt. For anything beyond that, its the Armalite, hands down.

50 yards, the ACOG is fine; the 200 yard mark is about right, give or take. I also have a red dot on top which I zero for 50. That makes it a breeze.

[Alaskapopo]

Does an ACOG get adjusted as much as a traditional scope? I was under the impression that the ACOG shot out to 500 meters without having to adjust anything.

what you are talking about is a bullet drop compensating reticle that ACOG do have. But some variable power scopes also have them. You just pic the mark on the cross hair that matches the range the target is at. However this only works on the load the reticle is calibrated for. For close in shooting I prefer to have a red dot working in tandum with my ACOG.



Pat

[MILWAR]

I used to be a Supervisor in the Trijicon ACOG Department. Now I'm a Military and Law Enforcement Equipment Retailer.


I want to learn precision shooting but dont want to learn all the crazy adjustments. How many yards can you shoot with an ACOG without adjusting for anything?
Answer: With 5.56mm ACOGs you can shoot up to the maximum effective range of the round without making adjustments. It's a "zero it and you're done" type of optic. Because they have integrated bullet drop reticles, you don't "adjust" it for different ranges like a Leupold Mark 4.


What range difference is there between a 14.5 inch Colt M4, 16 inch Colt M4, and 20 inch M16? Will any make shooting distance alot easier?
Shorter barrels = Good for close CQB type shots / Home Defense
Longer barrels = Good for long distance shots / Range Shooting
* Note the range of the round doesn't change much. It's still the same bullet, using the same powder charge. The longer barrel just makes it more accurate at extended ranges.

Is the AR the best platform to put an ACOG on?
Personal preference. Way back in the day there was ONLY Colt. Now there are several other manufacturers like Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, Aramalite, etc. I have a Rock River Arms M4 Carbine and I've been very happy with it. When I worked at Trijicon the other guys that had ARs recommend the Rock River Arms and I went with it. But the other manufacturers are good too.


Which ACOG where combat tested and approved? Im guessing 4x is the magnification I should use.
There is a common "misconception" that only certain ACOGs are MILSPEC. The USMC Model TA31RCO-M4 uses the same exact scope body, glass, internal parts, etc, etc as the non-military model TA31H. The best way to shop for an ACOG is to determine the caliber of round (it sounds like you're looking for 5.56mm) and then pick one of the ACOG scopes in that category with a reticle pattern you like. The most popular reticle is the Chevron, then Crosshair, then Horseshoe Dot, then all the rest (90% of the customers choose one of the three listed ones).


How much skill does it take to use an ACOG when compared to a traditional Leupold Mark 4 Tactical?
ACOGs are very very easy to use. You put it on the weapon, zero it once, and you're done. No more adjustment, changing batteries, etc. They're made to be "soldier proof".


Can I use the same ACOG on a 16 and 14.5 inch rifle? I am under the impression that these make 500-700 yard prescion shooting reachable for novice shooters?
IMPORTANT: The grand majority of the ACOG scopes are calibrated for medium 16" barrels. With a few ACOGs there are 3 different barrel lengths that they are calibrated for.....Short, Medium, and Long.

TA31RCO-M4 = Short 14.5" Barrels
TA31F = Medium 16" Barrels
TA31RCO-A4 = Long 20" Barrels

You can safely go UP or DOWN one barrel length and still be OK. If you had a TA31F you can use all 3 barrel lengths. If you have a TA31RCO-M4 you can only use Short 14.5" barrels and Medium 16" barrels.

How would you use one under 50 yards if you where in a fire fight?
Trijicon ACOGs are the best combat optics on the market for 50-600 meter targets. That not saying that they can't shoot outside of that range......that's just what they're the best for. If you add one of the new RMR sights to your ACOG then it becomes the best combat optic for 0-600 meter targets.

Example:
Aimpoint and EOTech = Best at 0-200 meter targets
Trijicon = Best at 50-600 meter targets (you can add a RMR and increase that to 0-600 meter targets)
Leupold = Best at 200-4000 meter targets.

If you do not have the RMR you still can use the ACOG for CQB (Close Quarters Battle / Home Defense) applications. The best way to do it is with "both eyes open" shooting (also called Bindon Aiming Concept). You simply leave both eyes open. The lighted part of the reticle pattern will "appear" in both eyes. You simply put the center of the reticle pattern on the target and pull the trigger. It takes a little bit to get used to this method but is very doable.

If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask. I will be monitoring this topic and you can always email us by checking out our profile.

[Failure2Stop]

You have a lot to learn about distance shooting.
A minor breeze can make for major shift at distance.
There is no such thing as "easy long range precision".

[Chameleox]

You have a lot to learn about distance shooting.
A minor breeze can make for major shift at distance.
There is no such thing as "easy long range precision".

And in fact, the things that make it hard are the things that make it fun, at least on a recreational level.

[shootist~]

The ACOGs are "practical" for 500 Meters or a little longer and are very easy to use. But they are not "precision" optics - you need more power for that.

I've run a TA01NSN on 20" and 16" inch guns with various ammo from 55 grain to 75 grain with no significant issues on 18" gongs at 500 meters (assuming the gun, ammo, etc., are up to the task). It's just a matter of sighting the rifle for the ammo in use (300 meters works best) and then knowing the hold points for the BDC stadias lines at the various distances.

For example - 75 grain .223 Tap in my 16" gun requires a hold point near the top of the target at 500M. Not precision, but still very practical.