Four Years Ago Today...

[Submariner]

Mission Accomplished!

[sencless]

<rant> Yeah it sure was.... assh0l3! </rant>

[Joseywales]

OK everyone, put you tampons back on and stop your rants. Here are some facts:

1. This has been the most successful war in US history. YES, MAJOR OPERATIONS WERE OVER WHEN HE ANNOUNCED IT. The operations going on currently in Iraq do not require as much hardware as the first phase. BTW, a lower level officer thought up the banner and wanted to hang it for morale. So the "Evil "Mr" Bush", thinking that his troops deserved the credit, allowed the banner to go up. Shame on our President for obliging them .

2. We have accomplished ALL of the goals we initially set out to accomplish. And bringing Democracy to Iraq is crucial, but not the be-all end-all.

3. WWII has been over for a long time. NEWS FASH: we are still in Germany, France, England, Japan, Italy, and several other nations that we were not in before the war.

4. After WWII, we kept on fighting, feeding money by the hundred millions to fledgling democracies, and getting our people killed. It was called the cold war for those who have been asleep for the past 50 years!

5. Technically, the Korean War has not ended.

6. The only war the USA has ever "lost" was started by a democrat (JFK) and lost by popular opinion only. We have never lost because we couldn't win. We lost because we gave up. Some assholes never learn from history. And now our enemies use that loss as a source of hope every time the US gets in a conflict.

7. "The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II, irrespective of political alignment, was roughly 72 million people. The civilian toll was around 46 million, including about 20 million due to war related famine and disease. The military toll about 26 million, including about 5 million prisoners of war. The Allies lost around 61 million people, and the Axis lost 11 million." The USA lost about 418,500. Does anyone think WWII was a mistake or that we should have surrendered?

The way I look at it, we have about 415,000 more deaths to incurr on our side before I get concerned. If WWII is the war you all feel patriotic about, watch movies about, brag about, and share grandpa and dad stories about, then that is the death standard we should accept. Any death more than that war is unacceptable and any less is acceptable. So go back to your dreams of a perfect world where are wars are over in a week and no one gets hurt.

And for those who think it matters....yes, I do have family in Iraq today and some that just ended thier tours in the past 2 months. And no, I did not serve for medical reasons, but would go if ordered and allowed.





PS... I hear that 3 out of 4 war protestors wanted to start a pessimist club, but they all decided it would never work. Maybe they just didn't have some of the membership here to get it done?

[Snake RAH]

+1

We're also still in Kosovo and Bosnia, TWELVE YEARS later. Bill promised us a year.

[Rock-N-Ruin]

+1

We're also still in Kosovo and Bosnia, TWELVE YEARS later. Bill promised us a year.

Don't get me started on the Teflon President!!!! Please....

[Akrado]

I don't want to stir s*** on my first post, but i can't help but laugh at the last posts. Or should I cry? Did I read you right? You need 415k more of our brothers to die before you get concerned?
Heres a fact for you.
We are losing more troops each month now than we ever did during the MAJOR OPERATIONS as you and W put it. I'd say that is pretty major fact. Maybe it should have been mentioned in one of your numbered points.

Bottom line is I just don't beleive that 1 single Marine or soldier's life is worth the freedom of an Iraqi, sorry. Not one more. Fight for that shit yourself Iraq. Lives are cheap over there and its obvious they don't respect authority unless that authority is violently oppressing them.

I grew up as a Navy brat and am a civilian employee of the DOD so I know the family that is the military and I do believe that if there is any American in harms way everything possible should be done to protect and assist in their duties. I would never protest our gov while our troops are in battle but I think W is inept even though I'm a lifelong republican that voted twice for W and will still vote the repub ticket. So please don't try to make this issue out like we're some sort of antiwar hippies just because we hold W and the Iraq gov responsible for their failures.

I get kind of fired up over the issue because my little brother was blown off the top of his HumV in fallujah and is permanently disabled. He's good now and luckily no brain damage, but will always have a 10 inch scar on his dome and titanium fasteners in his skull to prove just what W accomplished.

[Rock-N-Ruin]

I don't want to stir s*** on my first post, but i can't help but laugh at the last posts. Or should I cry? Did I read you right? You need 415k more of our brothers to die before you get concerned?
Heres a fact for you.
We are losing more troops each month now than we ever did during the MAJOR OPERATIONS as you and W put it. I'd say that is pretty major fact. Maybe it should have been mentioned in one of your numbered points.

Bottom line is I just don't beleive that 1 single Marine or soldier's life is worth the freedom of an Iraqi, sorry. Not one more. Fight for that shit yourself Iraq. Lives are cheap over there and its obvious they don't respect authority unless that authority is violently oppressing them.

I grew up as a Navy brat and am a civilian employee of the DOD so I know the family that is the military and I do believe that if there is any American in harms way everything possible should be done to protect and assist in their duties. I would never protest our gov while our troops are in battle but I think W is inept even though I'm a lifelong republican that voted twice for W and will still vote the repub ticket. So please don't try to make this issue out like we're some sort of antiwar hippies just because we hold W and the Iraq gov responsible for their failures.

I get kind of fired up over the issue because my little brother was blown off the top of his HumV in fallujah and is permanently disabled. He's good now and luckily no brain damage, but will always have a 10 inch scar on his dome and titanium fasteners in his skull to prove just what W accomplished.

My respect and heart go out to your family for your brothers service and loss, but it's really simple.. If were not there babysitin haji, the Saddams and Bin Laden's will just multiply.... That will just mean more deadly attacks on the civilians of the US and it's Allie's ... Do you want that?? I didn't think so..

[Akrado]

Well I don't believe that. Sorry, if anything we're just stirring them up for their next generation. If that is just a tactic to get them out in the open then maybe it will work and fine. But screw the idea of babysitting haji, they don't f'ing deserve it.

Like I said I work for the DOD, my co. happens to make some insane ordinance. I would recomend we use that to "babysit".
Drop bombs, has worked before...

[Pullo]

The reason why George had to go into Iraq is very simple. The worlds oil supply which has about 10 to 15 years left (you go do some research on that if you want) is going to need to be controlled by us if you want to keep the shit from hitting the fan. Our freedom loving, flag waving, apple pie eatin way of life depends upon the production and refinement of oil. Iraq sits upon the largest untapped oil wells Suadi arabia has the 2nd. Anyway you look at it, the troops are there to keep all us soft bunch of webaholics living good. Thats why we will not leave Iraq until the oil is gone, then we will have to go fight for the next oil well. Irans oil supply already peaked, the only threat George sees from them is that they try and take the Iraqi or Saudi Oil fields. So chill out brothers in arms cause this has to be done if you want to keep your way of life as you have known it so far. But, I personally think something bad is going to happen in a few years. There are just to many variables to go wrong. God be with all your families.

[sencless]

My respect and heart go out to your family for your brothers service and loss, but it's really simple.. If were not there babysitin haji, the Saddams and Bin Laden's will just multiply.... That will just mean more deadly attacks on the civilians of the US and it's Allie's ... Do you want that?? I didn't think so..

What difference does that make if we cant stop the Mexicans from crossing the borders daily or the Cubans and the rest of the Caribbean making it to Florida daily or weekly? Again I ask, what is the use of baby sitting if we cannot protect our borders? Thats like the Miami Heat trying to out score the Bulls instead of playing defense...

What is the end result? We spend more money daily increasing the national deficit, lives are lost (a hell of a lot more than what is reported so you numbers should be way off!), and we still can't protect this country... so the real question is are we really safer and is it worth it? Dubyah seems to think so, although popular opinion says otherwise... but hey Dubyah is the commander in chief and he does and has done whatever he has wanted to.