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Thread: Del-ton.com: GTG

  1. #91
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    I agree with your post 100% if this were TOS. But, this is M4carbine.net. If he wants reassurance or validation he can go there and they will worship him.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrock1 View Post
    Can I ask whats wrong with a guy wanting a fun gun to shirt dirt clods at the farm with? If that's the intended role of the gun, and a few hundred rounds a year is all you plan to shoot, and the gun is just a casual plinker, couldn't one of these Del-Ton kit's be a perfectly good gun for that purpose?

    This place cracks me up sometimes. The level of snobery is sometimes unreal. I'm not trying to bash anyone so don't get me wrong. I'm sure that was not your intent with your comment. I understnad your point within the context of the conversation taking place. But one thing I have noticed is that this site tends to be the hangout for a lot of very serious shooters. Good info abounds, and there is a lot of experience here from people that know the platform and what makes a really good AR. As a result, a lot of people here seem to think of the AR platform strictly within the context of a gun for serious business. But don't dismiss the fact that a lot of casual shooters think the AR platform is pretty neaty (can you blaim them) and they want one to play with. And they come here to learn about their guns.

    This sort of buyer is never going to attend a carbine class, never going to fire a shot in anger, never going to go to war, never going to carry their carbine on patrol etc. They are gonna shoot beer cans a couple of weekends a year with a gun that looks cool and is fun to shoot. If that is your intended role for the gun, I'd argue that a top tier high dollar gun is arguably a waste of money for some people.

    These sort of folks come here to get some good information and guidance on there purchase and how to use it and they get their teeth kicked in. Or maybe they are excited and make a post about how happy they are with their purchase and then their post is followed by several pages where people basically imply, or explicitly say how stupid, ignorant, or cheap that person was for not ponying up a few hundred more dollars for a gun they would never fully take advantage of. I don't think there is anything wrong with being the type of guy who insists on the best. Hell if you want a BCM just for busting dirt clods there is nothing wrong with that either.

    Anyway, I've owned the less expensive guns, and some high quality guns too. In fact I owned a Del-Ton and it served me quite well for my purposes. It was a fun gun for casual use and filled that role quite admirably. I knew when I bought it it was a hobby gun. I knew the difference between a true mil-spec gun and a hobby gun and I still bought it. I knew when I bought it that I wouldn't be putting thousands of rounds a weekend through it at carbine courses several times a year. Had that been my plan I would have gotten something else (in fact since then I have as I'm getting interested in doing some formal training and using the platform for HD). Anyway, fact is thats not what I needed at the time. If were in the market for a plinker again, I'd buy another Del-Ton with no regrets. And before anyone assumes I'm just cheap, I own plenty of high dollar guns, ARs and others, because paying for that level of performance was worth it to me for their intended role.

    I just think when a guy says "What do you think about Del-ton/DPMS/Etc" the correct response would be to ask the intended purpose of the gun. If the guy says it's just a plinker/fun gun, it would be reasonble to say that a Del-Ton will serve them quite well. If he asks for a recomendation for a gun for serious use then the recomendations of Colt/BCM/DD/Noveske/Etc are an appropriate response. In either case, implying someone is a cheap dumbass for purchasing something like a DPMS is just snobbery. If they were planning on taking a DPMS to war, then certainly they need a serious education, but if it's for bustin dirt clods on the back fourty, well seems to me it will do just fine in most cases.

    Now on the other hand, the guys that want to come on here and call top tier owners a bunch of dumbasses for wasting their money on a Noveske/Colt/DD etc when a Del-Ton is "just as good". Well those guys are genuinely ignorant dumbasses so have at'em.

    Adrock1



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrock1 View Post
    This sort of buyer is never going to attend a carbine class, never going to fire a shot in anger, never going to go to war, never going to carry their carbine on patrol etc. They are gonna shoot beer cans a couple of weekends a year with a gun that looks cool and is fun to shoot. If that is your intended role for the gun, I'd argue that a top tier high dollar gun is arguably a waste of money for some people.

    These sort of folks come here to get some good information and guidance on there purchase and how to use it and they get their teeth kicked in.
    Adrock1
    What kind of advice is someone looking for as far as shooting at beer cans goes? If that's what you want, why even come to a forum? Just buy the cheapest thing that looks cool and go kill beer cans. The problem is that most beer can killers aren't happy unless they can post pics and get a pat on the back from the internet. This is not the forum to come to for a thumbs up on your new beer can killer.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunderway View Post
    This is not the forum to come to for a thumbs up on your new beer can killer.
    This is exactly the reason I came over here from TOS

  4. #94
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    People need to lose this thin skin, and stop attaching emotion to all the wrong things.

    I don't know how much experience some of you have with dedicated enthusiast and technical forums/community websites/etc., but this place is pretty generous in the level of silliness that gets put up with compared to some other places I visit.

    For example, these are from a Newbie FAQ from one of those sites:

    Why are you so mean? I'm not actually mean. I just have a low tolerance for stupidity, and very little tact. I cut straight through in an effort to get to the heart of the matter, without any misconceptions. If this is something you can't handle, it's likely that this is not the site for you.

    Why are people criticizing/downvoting my article? Because it sucks. Just because you think an idea is going to be great, doesn't mean it is. Get used to this.

    Can you make them stop? No. Welcome to the Foundation, kids. We don't tend to pull punches. Especially if you're getting criticism from myself or Yoric. If you can't handle being told something of yours sucks, this isn't the right site for you.

    Yoric is being an asshole about my totally awesome idea. What now? Listen to him, he knows what he is talking about.

    But that's not the way they did it at my old site/forum/chat room/etc! You're right, it isn't. That's not a question either.

    Why do you have such an attitude? Because this site is our baby. Many of us, Senior Staff and otherwise, have watched this Site grow from a single post over on /x/ to the heaving behemoth it is now. We've seen how bad it can get when people are allowed free rein to post whatever shit they want. So, now we keep it in line, to prevent our site from becoming something horrible.
    I apologize for the thread hijack, but I think a LOT of these asinine arguments could be avoided if people stop viewing their purchases as their children whose honor they must rush in and protect. Learn to take some damned constructive criticism from those experienced and willing to take time out of their day to help you. And learn the culture of a community before diving in headfirst.
    Last edited by opmike; 03-15-11 at 23:17.
    "I have your number. Consider yourself warned."

  5. #95
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    WTF is this Facebook?

    Quote Originally Posted by adrock1 View Post
    Or maybe they are excited and make a post about how happy they are with their purchase
    Adrock1
    Shit like this is for Facebook or Gayspace dude!
    Never judge a man by his success, judge by how he deals with his failures!- L.E.C.

    Some People suck at being Human!- Me

    "To keep you is no gain, to destroy you is no loss."- Khmer Rouge

  6. #96
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    The correct response is ALWAYS "what do you want to do with the item?" This applies whether to guns, optics, load carriage, vehicles, tools, whatever. You are absolutely right, people are entitled to spend their money however they want, and if they want to shoot beer cans at the farm a cheaper brand may well be the right answer.

    However, as IG correctly points out, this isn't really the site for that. this link may help. I think, specifically,the bullet-point assumptions are applicable here.

    Now, that out of the way, there are absolutely a lot of people that join here, ask a couple of questions, buy a "top tier" AR, shoot as little or even less than the Delton owner, but think that buying a "better" gun ushers them into some cool-kids club. I hate that shit too. There is an American male phenomena wherein one tries to buy their way into the cool kids club. You see this with motorcycles, cars, golf, whatever. Many people get into an activity or buy an item looking for friends. Hence the "community" aspect at TOS where now you don't even need to own an AR. All you need to do is register and post a lot in GD and you're "one of the guys", and the other social misfits welcome you with open arms. Here it may take buying a "top tier" AR but it's much the same. TOS encourages this shit, and most of the established members here are at least ambivalent if not discourage it, but it exists all the same. I could name a dozen members this applies to off the top of my head, and 5x that amount with a couple of searches to refresh my memory.

    So the "end use" does matter, but so does the environment in which the question is asked. Asking here about "lower tier" guns is going to sometimes be seen as akin to asking about the V6 on a Camaro forum. But people also need to get off their high horse and do a little introspective thinking about who and what they really are. I'll take a SHOOTER with a Delton over a COLLECTOR/POSEUR/PICTURE-POSTER with a "top tier" gun any day of the week.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanSynergy View Post
    For those praising Del-Ton:

    Go take a 2 or 3 day carbine class from one of our Industry Professionals and get back to us on how well your carbine did.
    Mine has been doing pretty well in classes over the years.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunderway View Post
    This is not the forum to come to for a thumbs up on your new beer can killer.

    Excellent sigline material.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrock1 View Post
    --Stuff--
    The problem is that this is not "HeyIwanttoshootdirtclods.com.

    M4C.net. This site caters to 3 types of people.
    • Military/PMC
    • Police
    • Serious minded civilians(in regards to firearms) who want to train to use their weapons in the most proficient manner possible.


    With that comes a different mindset. My instructor uses a term a lot in class. "In the world we live in". By that he means the world of training we have chosen to immerse ourselves in. A part of that mindset is coming to understand that the right tools should be used for the right job.

    That is the idea behind M4C. Not "Hey look at my new stick" Sure we all do that sometimes. Heck I do it a lot. But the difference is why people do it. When you see it here it is usually from people like me who are still learning. We don't do it for validation. We do it for advice.

    So the questions tend to be like this:
    My purpose is X. Here is what I have. What do you suggest I change to accomplish my goal?
    But what we are seeing a lot of lately is:

    Hey look at this gun i just picked up. Isn't it shiny? I know it is a DPMS/Del-ton/RRA but I wanted it right then and there and this is all they had. How did I do?

    If you don't like the purpose or attitude of the site then by all means go to ARF.com or THR or Glocktalk. But I would suggest something different. Stick around a bit. Listen to the experienced guys. And learn.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by opmike View Post
    People need to lose this thin skin, and stop attaching emotion to all the wrong things.

    I don't know how much experience some of you have with dedicated enthusiast and technical forums/community websites/etc., but this place is pretty generous in the level of silliness that gets put up with compared to some other places I visit.

    For example, these are from a Newbie FAQ from one of those sites:



    I apologize for the thread hijack, but I think a LOT of these asinine arguments could be avoided if people stop viewing their purchases as their children whose honor they must rush in and protect. Learn to take some damned constructive criticism from those experienced and willing to take time out of their day to help you. And learn the culture of a community before diving in headfirst.
    You make a good point.

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