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Thread: Any Canucks in here serve with a C7A1?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifleman2000 View Post
    What about the optic did you hate? I ask because we used a version of the ELCAN on M240s and M249s and I REALLY hated them too. The rubber armor got loose, and I never encountered one that the reticle light functioned on.

    I hate the ELCAN, at least those few I have had experience with. Not rugged or dependable enough.

    On a M240 you did not need them, as long as you had a good tripod and AG to adust the fall of your rounds.
    You nailed it, right there.

    It was WAY too big. (Nothing like carrying a soup can on the top of your rifle) Never worked quite right. Was as loose as a $2 hooker.

    All in all, just a sub standard optic. Again, just my humble opinion.

  2. #12
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    i dont think i've ever heard anything positive about the elcans.. they seem to be more problematic than eotechs.

    it's neither a C7 nor C7A1... the weapon pictured, and the weapon we're all talking about, is the C7A2.. which, as far as i recall, is the only version with a rifle upper and carbine lower. the op mis-wrote, and nobody bothered/thought to correct

  3. #13
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    I have been doing some reading that says the Canadians took colt's data package and made some odd 150 modifications to the weapon.

    Canadian assault rifle key part of SAS arsenal

    C7 is standard issue for Canadian troops, a hit with the British

    Michael Higgins
    National Post, with files from The Daily Telegraph

    The Special Air Service, Britain‘s elite troops, will go into Afghanistan armed with a formidable weapon designed in Canada.

    The C7 assault rifle will be the weapon of choice for many of the SAS soldiers because of its accuracy and durability.

    The C7, the standard rifle for Canadian troops, has proved a big hit with the elite soldiers; it outperformed Britain‘s own SA80 and the American M16 during tests by the SAS.

    The SAS began testing the weapon two years ago and, impressed by its reliability and heavy firepower, bought enough to equip the entire regiment.

    The weapon is manufactured by Diemaco, Kitchener, Ont., and costs upwards of $2,000 a gun.

    Optional equipment includes a 40mm grenade launcher, attached under the main barrel. SAS troopers will carry about 20 of the anti-personnel and anti-tank grenades.

    There is also a laser pointer and a night image intensification sight, also known as a Kite sight. A silencer can be fitted on the end of the barrel giving the gun sniper capacity.

    The magazine holds 30 rounds and the rate of fire is 700 to 940 rounds per minute. According to its specifications, it has a range of 400 metres.

    A special forces source said: "This weapon is worth its weight in gold. You just don‘t want something that is ‘spray and pray‘ and you want a weapon you can absolutely rely on when you pull the trigger."

    The C7 is ideal as a weapon for the close-quarter battle that the SAS is likely to experience in the caves, ravines and built-up areas of Afghanistan.

    A spokesman for Diemaco said: "The thing about the C7 over the M16 is its durability. The barrel life is much longer and its general longevity better. Small but significant changes, very minor changes, make it function better in poor conditions -- mud and poor climatic conditions."

    The C7 was designed in the mid-1980s and was based on America‘s M16. It has since been sold to the U.K., the Netherlands and Denmark.
    AND

    Hi Steve
    I apologize for not answering sooner. I‘m afraid I have been avoiding the
    alligators chewing on my ankles to take care of the ones feeding higher up.
    To answer your questions as presented:
    The effective range published does not have much to do with the barrel but
    is an infantry doctrine distance to do with the whole system including the
    man, sights, weapon ammunition and expected employment. So when you see
    effective range, it is almost always a subjective assessment of the system
    capability derived by the user instructor (CTC) and rifle requirements
    office (DLR), usually before the weapon is even bought. In the case of the
    C7 it included iron sights and was extended (I think) when the C79 sight and
    the C7A1 came along. The reference to the rifles origins (M16A1E1) is in
    reference to the sight option first chosen by the CF. The heavy front
    profile, 1 turn in 7inch barrel is definitely M16A2. As is the cartridge
    deflector, handguards and many other changes.

    Now lets talk barrels:
    The C7 barrel is not the same as any M16 barrel except for the exterior
    profile which is M16A2. The Material is to a formula developed here in
    Diemaco (under Gov‘t contract) so that the entire bore and chamber
    configuration can be integrally formed in one operation on a rotary hammer
    forge. This process produces a barrel that is much stronger than the US
    M16A2 barrel. The bore dimensions were developed to fire C77 ammunition,
    (Chamber, bullet lead, diameters) the bore has dimensional reduction as the
    bullet moves forward (squeeze) to increase life and accuracy. The bore is
    plated with harder chrome than the M16. This allows greater wear life (2 to
    3 times M16) and lets us machine C9 barrels from the same barrel blank. The
    SFW was recently tested and purchased by the UK special forces and won in
    competition against the Swiss SIG series rifles and the H&K G36 rifle. This
    barrel is now in use by the Special Forces in five countries and the US Navy
    Seals have expressed interest in putting them in the M4 Carbines that they
    have.
    We have just completed a C8 Carbine upgrade program for Canada which is a
    new barrel with an improved chamber and stronger extractor spring assembly
    and a weaker ejector spring. These are the same internal configuration as
    our very successful SFW barrel.

    Differences:
    The C7 rifle and C8 Carbine is made under license with a Tech Data Package
    provided by Colt to the Canadian Gov‘t. Diemaco reviewed the design and
    made about 150 changes to the drawing package before Canadian production.
    These are to numerous to mention her but include things like materials and
    processes as well as a different barrel configuration and manufacturing
    processes.

    The improved handguard we designed here after CWO John Ginn kept beating the
    Colt version off the weapon on the parade square. You probably can‘t tell
    from the outside but if the you take the handguard off, you will notice two
    types. The improved version has two large ribs under the heat shield and
    three interlocking ribs on either edge as well as different material. These
    were introduced late in the program so they had to be interchangable and be
    a good match with the old handguard.

    Another change you may notice is the small diameter front sight post that we
    developed when soldiers complained that the US large square one actually
    obscured the target at ranges of 300 and greater.

    I hope this helps you with the discussion and thank you for your interest in
    the C7.

    Ian Anderson
    ILS Supervisor
    Product Engineering Dept.
    Diemaco a division of Heroux- Devtek

    Please note: Any opinions expressed or implied in this email are personal
    are not necessarily those of Heroux Devtek or Diemaco
    Also a few countries seemed to have adopted the Canadian rifle over our M16.

    I am wondering WHY. Ok, so you have a great barrel... what else makes it a better choice over an M16? Forget the ELCAN for a moment... what is the big picture here? It appears that Colt Canada produces a very well made version of our M16 for the maple leaf country. Colt is considered top tier, so does Canada do it even better? Interesting.

  4. #14
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    http://coltcanada.com/

    That's some good research you've done, Knife Sniper. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

    I, too, had an Elcan on my M249 back in '05. I didn't like it very much either. Mainly because it was so big. My reticle did light up, but I never really felt like that gave me any kind of significant advantage.
    Last edited by William B.; 04-15-10 at 18:09.
    Owner/Instructor at Resolute Response
    Assistant Instructor at Protective Shooting Concepts

  5. #15
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    hmm. wonder if i can get my hands on one of them canadian barrels.
    Doing my part to keep malls safe

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 cal slut View Post
    hmm. wonder if i can get my hands on one of them canadian barrels.
    I have wondered the same thing...
    They make a midlength version too.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knife_Sniper View Post
    I have been doing some reading that says the Canadians took colt's data package and made some odd 150 modifications to the weapon.



    AND



    Also a few countries seemed to have adopted the Canadian rifle over our M16.

    I am wondering WHY. Ok, so you have a great barrel... what else makes it a better choice over an M16? Forget the ELCAN for a moment... what is the big picture here? It appears that Colt Canada produces a very well made version of our M16 for the maple leaf country. Colt is considered top tier, so does Canada do it even better? Interesting.


    It is not necessarily the materials or manufacturing difference (which are not really that significant), the Canadian configurations are more desirable for experienced AR15 people.

    Things like A1 sights, tele stocks on rifles, 1/7 twist lightweight barrels are what makes the Canadian guns appealing to more sophisticated users.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  8. #18
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    So would anyone have a lead on where one could get the FSB rail assembly? Im wanting to do a similar build minus the ELCAN myself and am just waiting for my upper to show up(BCM). But then again Id love to find the handgaurd/carryhandle/foregrip assembly so I could build a wannabe LSW.
    -Jesse

  9. #19
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    I could be smokin' it here, but it seems to me that we "the people"...the average AR consumer, have access
    to very nearly everything you could want to install in your AR even now, or mighty close to it. Outside of
    a truly top shelf A2 Gov't bbl., as in going beyond mil spec., what could we be missing....especially in the
    typical enthusiast tastes we have in the states. The US military buys a standardized product because they
    have to, to maintain continuity. That is one big advantage to being a commercial consumer ...I can go out
    and buy a 16" Middie, exactly the way I want it, with exactly the right barrel, and barrel material I want.
    I'm not limited to what may or may not cut it with Big Army. Same with optics, and anything else I want to
    hang on my stick.
    Last edited by jaygee; 07-14-10 at 17:56. Reason: error

  10. #20
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    And ammo, don't forget ammo....

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