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Thread: California and it's future gun laws.

  1. #1
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    California and it's future gun laws.

    I travel to CA usually several times a month for business. It's a beautiful state with nice scenery, great weather and a bunch of wingnut, liberal dipshits in power. I've been reading several articles on different laws in the state that are being proposed and wanted to start a discussion thread on them.

    Regardless of whether you agree with the open carrying of pistols or not, as a form of tactics, I do see it as a valid form of protest in the state due to the difficulty of obtaining a concealed carry permit. Typically, people are complying with the law and carrying an unloaded weapon as a way to either have the opportunity to possibly defend themselves, as a form of protest or to "educate" other people on gun rights, this is how I understand it.

    So, people are complying with the law and now they're trying to pass a bill to make open carrying of an unloaded firearm illegal. I don't know of a single incident where anything "bad" has happened due to someone open carrying a firearm, much less an unloaded one. But since it offends the noble sensibilities of a few an entire state is going to have have their rights trampled on even further.

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ry-gun-rights/
    SACRAMENTO — Could tactics used by the “open carry” movement backfire?

    Assemblywoman Lori Saldaña, D-San Diego, and allies of legislation she introduced Wednesday to ban the public display of unloaded weapons believe so.

    State law permitting Californians to display their empty-chamber firearms has been on the books since about 1968, drawing little attention.

    But a surge in demonstrations of people exercising that right in the San Diego region and nationally has attracted scrutiny.

    “It wasn’t a problem we had to deal with. As it’s become more prevalent over the last two years, we’ve had to deal with it,” said Emeryville Police Chief Ken James, whose statewide law enforcement organization supports the measure. “If we hadn’t had a lot of these open-carry events, police chiefs probably wouldn’t be involved in it,” he added.

    Saldaña cited an open-carry event in Pacific Beach last year as alerting her to the need for a ban on displaying guns, even unloaded, in public. There, with thousands of people at the beach on a Saturday, about 60 members of the movement walked along the boardwalk.

    Open-carry advocates say they are acting out of frustration over what they see as government’s infringement on their Second Amendment rights. They also are protesting limits on concealed-weapon permits.

    “The Second Amendment provides the right to bear arms, not just in the home,” said Sam Paredes, executive director of Gun Owners of California. “They’re using the First Amendment to make a statement about the Second Amendment.”

    Among the most celebrated instances nationally have been at various Starbucks Coffee locations and in Phoenix, where about a dozen activists legally brandished weapons near an event attended by President Barack Obama.

    “Guns are an intimidating presence,” Saldaña said. “The average citizen can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys.”

    Lawmakers have attempted to change the law several times, but not since 2005, according to Saldaña.

    “We’re seeing more instances of open carry. Circumstances have changed,” she said.

    Saldaña’s measure, Assembly Bill 1934, would not change existing law that allows citizens to carry concealed weapons with permits. Businesses on private property would still be free to implement their own open-carry policies.

    Gerald Reaster, a retired Navy officer and organizer of an Escondido open-carry group, called the public displays “a form of grass-roots political protest.”

    Members go to public places to assert their rights and educate people, he said.

    There have been events in shopping malls, at restaurants and at Escondido’s popular Cruisin’ Grand hot-rod event on Friday nights. Members meet beforehand for a safety briefing and to ensure the guns are unloaded, Reaster said.

    “We are not doing this to intimidate people,” he said.

    But there have been reports of business patrons fleeing stores and complaining that the demonstrations frighten them and their children.

    Victor Torres, a member of the North County minority rights organization El Grupo, is alarmed because he associates the open-carry movement with the Minutemen, which has crusaded against illegal immigration.

    “I don’t see what the purpose is other than trying to intimidate people,” Torres said, endorsing the legislation.

    Saldaña promotes the bill as a public safety measure, noting that when police are called to reports of guns they do not know whether it’s a protest or an actual public threat.

    Said Emeryville Chief James, “We view open carry as an officer safety issue. Officers are taught from Day One at the academy that guns are a threat. … We teach tactically how to respond to that threat.”

    With Saldaña’s bill in place, “they will not have to worry about whether their safety is going to be in peril by somebody openly carrying a firearm,” James said.

    Paredes dismissed the support of the California Police Chiefs Association, saying members must answer to big-city councils that are usually pro-gun control.

    Supporters of the bill concede that they know of no incidences of violence related to open-carry events.

    Even though California law bars citizens from displaying loaded guns, ammunition can be on one hip while an unloaded pistol is holstered on the other leg, Saldaña said. She displayed a video showing a person slipping a magazine into a gun within two seconds.

    The bill will get its first test Monday in the Assembly Public Safety Committee.

    Its fate appears murky. Gun control, even in California, has always been a tough sell in the Legislature. Its chances are further complicated by upcoming elections and the influence of the conservative tea party movement.

    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has not taken a position.
    Link to the actual bill: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/...d_asm_v98.html

    Video here: https://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/702
    Last edited by Irish; 04-15-10 at 12:59.

  2. #2
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    In addition to Assemblywoman Lori Saldaña’s measure, a handful of other high-profile battles are being waged over gun-related bills working their way to the full Assembly. Those include the following:

    Assembly Bill 1810 would require dealers to record the make, model and serial number of rifles and shotguns they sell. Buyer information would be reported, and all of it would be kept on file with the California Department of Justice. Carried by Assemblyman Mike Feuer, D-Los Angeles. Passed Assembly Public Safety Committee 4-2.

    Assembly Bill 2223 would require that hunters use nontoxic ammunition while in state wildlife management areas, effectively banning lead-shot bullets in those settings. Carried by Assemblyman Pedro Nava, D-Santa Barbara, the measure passed the Assembly Water, Parks and Wildlife Committee 8-4.

    Assembly Bill 1498 would expand a list of specified offenses that automatically result in a 10-year ban on possessing a gun. The two additional offenses are misdemeanor carrying of a concealed weapon and possessing an assault weapon. Misdemeanor offenses related to gang activity would also result in a 10-year ban on gun possession. Carried by Assemblyman Kevin De Leon, D-Los Angeles, it passed one committee last year but has stalled in Assembly Appropriations.

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    I think this bill has more to do with taking away a form of protest then public safety.

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    In the aftermath of the breakdown of the Government in New Orleans, the California state assembly passed AB 1645 and Governor Schwarzenegger has signed it into law...

    AB 1645 (Stats. 2007, ch. 715) (La Malfa)

    Establishes that the Governor’s authority to invoke various powers in the event of an emergency do not include the power to order the seizure or confiscation of firearms or ammunition from any individual who lawfully possesses the firearm or ammunition. (Gov. Code, § 8571.5)
    MossieTactics.com ~ KMA 367

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    And lets not forget...

    Assembly Bill 357, sponsored by Assembly Member Steve Knight (R-36), would create a "shall issue" concealed handgun permit system in California. Under current law, an applicant must show cause as to why they should be issued a permit to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense. AB357 would remove that stipulation and require sheriffs to issue the license if all other mandated criteria are satisfied. This bill has been referred to the Assembly Committee on Public Safety but no hearing has been scheduled.

    Assembly Bill 1167, introduced by Assembly Member Jim Nielsen (R-2), would require that the California Department of Justice enter into reciprocity agreements with other states so that permit holders in California can exercise their self-defense rights while traveling and permit holders from recognized states can carry while in California. AB1167 has not yet been assigned to a committee.
    MossieTactics.com ~ KMA 367

  6. #6
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    Nice to have some good news.

    Dennis.

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    Follow up.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_1...nclick_check=1
    SACRAMENTO, Calif.—Do gun-toters pose a danger when they carry their weapons in public, even if they're unloaded?
    Some California lawmakers think they do and want to rein in a growing trend among Second Amendment advocates who grab their handgun when they reach for the car keys and head to the supermarket.

    "What I'm concerned about is people who have no training can carry a gun for no other purpose than to make a public statement," said the bill's author Democratic Assemblywoman Lori Saldana of San Diego.

    Starbucks caused a nationwide stir recently when it allowed so-called open-carry advocates to bring their weapons into its coffee houses in the states that allow it. But several retailers have banned weapons in their stores, including Peet's Coffee & Tea and California Pizza Kitchen.

    If signed into law, California would be the fourth state to ban people from wearing guns openly, according to the Legal Community Against Violence, a public interest law center based in San Francisco.

    Florida, Illinois, Texas and the District of Columbia have a similar open-carry ban.

    California and 34 other states allow people to carry a gun without a license. However, only California, North Dakota and Utah require that the weapon be unloaded.

    Gun owners in the 12 other states must have a license or permit to carry a handgun, said Benjamin Van Houten, an attorney at the law center. Residents of Alaska and Vermont can carry a loaded gun without a license, while Arizona residents will be allowed to do so as early as this summer under a bill signed last week.

    In California, only gun owners with a concealed-weapons permit can carry a loaded weapon, which would not change under the Saldana bill.

    Emeryville Police Chief Ken James, a member of the California Police Chiefs Association, said open-carry laws have been on the books since the late 1960s, but gun advocates have only recently begun to demonstrate their right to carry a gun.

    "Officers are taught from Day 1 in the academy that guns are a threat," said James, whose association is sponsoring the bill. "This open carry places officers in a position between a rock and a hard spot."

    The policy also costs taxpayers and diverts law enforcement from investigating crimes whenever police officers are called to respond to a report of someone wearing a gun, Saldana said. Gun owners say unloaded guns pose no threat to the public.

    "If you can't carry loaded, then it's really just a waste of time to ban it because you're asking law-abiding people to disarm themselves from an object that does no harm to anyone because it's unloaded," said Rachel Parsons, a spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association. "In a time when there's limited taxpayer funds, passing these additional laws that mean absolutely nothing is a waste of taxpayer dollars."

    Under current California law, gun owners are allowed to carry ammunition as long as it's not in the weapon. Saldana and other critics say that proximity adds to the public-safety threat.

    During a recent news conference, Saldana played a video that showed a person can load a gun in seconds.

    Previous attempts to prohibit open-carry of guns have stalled in the Assembly. The chamber's Public Safety Committee is scheduled to hear the Saldana bill Tuesday.

    Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, the committee's chairman, supports the ban.

    "Whether a gun is loaded or not, it's still an act of intimidation and bullying," Ammiano said.

    Saldana said she hopes Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger will sign her bill because he has been responsive to law enforcement concerns in the past. Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Rachel Arrezola said the governor has not taken a position.

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    It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. I think california will pass any infringement on the constitution it can get away with. Liberals and labor unions have a total stranglehold on the state. It is this reason that the state is ungovernable. It is also the reason it is bankrupt. The state is bleeding out. They are currently taking double to triple (depending on your income) state tax with holdings out of californians paychecks to slow the bleeding. How long can they last? My bet is for a fiscal collapse within 2 years. Then police and NG will be unpaid and the state falls into temporary collapse. What happens next is any ones guess. I have zero facts, just a gut feeling. My gut is usually right.

    I do not advocate breaking the law, but if shtf, do you care about gun laws?
    "Oh, its a wonderful day! My sun is shining, my birds are chirping, my humongous chicken defeated Elmo." Huxley

  9. #9
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    Btw, no hijack intended. I like where you are going with this.
    "Oh, its a wonderful day! My sun is shining, my birds are chirping, my humongous chicken defeated Elmo." Huxley

  10. #10
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    what good news?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Nice to have some good news.

    Dennis.
    The items Buck mentioned are not law.

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