Talked to a Marine sniper who was in Vietnam

**nationwide** · 05-07-07, 14:52

One of our safety instructors at work is a former (maybe retired?) USMC Sniper. He said he went through one of the first Scout/Sniper schools they started up during Viet-Nam.

The way he carries himself, and the way he treats people leads me to belive he's 100% real deal.

**Pat_Rogers** · 05-08-07, 17:25

I had saved this a while back. I did not check these numbers against any database. However, see Burkett's Stolen Valor for verifiable information.

Vietnam War Facts:
Facts, Statistics, Fake Warrior Numbers, and Myths Dispelled

9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam
Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.
240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
58,148 were killed in Vietnam
75,000 were severely disabled
23,214 were 100% disabled
5,283 lost limbs
1,081 sustained multiple amputations
Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old
Of those killed, 17,539 were married
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
As of January 15, 2 004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War
97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged
91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome
Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups.
Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent.
87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem.
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans Administration Study)
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.

Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day. During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.

The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. >From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers

Common Myths Dispelled:

Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.
Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population.

Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam veterans' group.

Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be," said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia - a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war."

Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.

Here are statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of November 1993. The CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (The Wall): Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years. (Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action)
Deaths Average Age
Total: 58,148 23.11 years
Enlisted: 50,274 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276 24.73 years
E1 525 20.34 years
11B MOS: 18,465 22.55 years

Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting in Vietnam was 19.
Fact:: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought in World War II was 26 years of age.

Myth: The Common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.
__________________

**Barry in IN** · 05-09-07, 12:49

Pat-
Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting and informative. That last part (about the Domino Theory) was one of the best summations I've seen and provides a powerful argument (Well, it's a good argument if the other arguee has any knowledge at all about it).

Regarding the B.S.ers-
I never understood why people would claim to be a combat veteran when they were not. Some are so obvious (like one who claimed to be a helo pilot in Vietnam but would have been about 13 in 1975) that only an idiot would believe them.
People like that shouldn't even be allowed to drive.

**USMC_1983-89** · 05-10-07, 21:55

Probably a pinko that spent the 60's in Canada...

**Nra-Life-Member** · 05-11-07, 09:46

Wasn't there a hero in the last presidential election and he had tons of fellow supporters tell his story

BTW: My hat goes off to all who served in our armed services both Past and Present.. BS'ers or Not..

**f.2** · 05-11-07, 19:32

While visiting the Navy home in Bay St Louis MS (preKatrina of course), I had the pleasure of meeting a WWII Sailor who was on the USS STERETT. He is mentioned throughout Tin Can Sailor: Life Aboard the USS Sterett, 1939-1945. Amazing conversation. Night action off the PI. A U.S. warship running broadside with a Japanese vessel both shooting broadsides at each other and so close the shells could only poke holes in the superstrutrue, they couldn't get the elevation low enough for a waterline shot.

**losbronces** · 05-11-07, 20:59

Originally Posted by Barry in IN

Pat-
Regarding the B.S.ers-
I never understood why people would claim to be a combat veteran when they were not. Some are so obvious (like one who claimed to be a helo pilot in Vietnam but would have been about 13 in 1975) that only an idiot would believe them.
People like that shouldn't even be allowed to drive.

For me the most famous faker was the former CEO of Harnischfeger who led that company to bankruptcy, Jeffrey T. Grade. He liked to tell his motivational war stories, only problem was they were all lies.

The link below is for a good story (albeit an old one) on the phony vets (not just Vietnam):

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_n10712449

**One Shot** · 07-26-07, 18:58

When I originally posted with the word "commie" I was trying to be nice and NOT use the racist word of "gook" as it upsets some people with thin skins. I was with the 173D Airborne Brigade in Nam for 19 months and we called the enemy, both political and military, by a variety of different names. To us, it didn't matter what type of enemy they were as they were just evil that needed to be eliminated. We cut them no slack and they returned the favor. What's interesting, from my standpoint, is that I actually hold 2 Bronze Stars, 4 ARCOMS, jump wings and a CIB (Combat Infantryman's Badge) and am considered "highly decorated" where I used work. The trouble is that when I meet with the guys from my unit in Nam up in the Chicago area, I feel like a slacker. One of the guys I know, and who is a friend of mine, has 4 Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. Other guys in our group did things like do THREE TOURS in Viet Nam. One guy did FOUR TOURS, has 3 Purple Hearts and so on. I guess that my point is that when I'm with other people who also served in Nam from my unit I'm not embarrassed to be near them but I feel a kind of quiet pride in them and not in anything that I did. Just to be with these fellow paratroopers of my old unit makes me proud of THEM more than anything that I personally ever did. So, when somebody claims something like they were a sniper in Nam, when it is obvious that they weren't, it bothers me because of what those OTHER guys did when THEY were in Viet Nam. It is not a matter of stolen valor because of what I've seen documented that these other guys have done for their country. There is no way anybody could ever take away anything of valor from any of these other guys. I guess that I have a different perspective of things like this.

**John_Wayne777** · 07-26-07, 20:06

Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers

I had saved this a while back. I did not check these numbers against any database. However, see Burkett's Stolen Valor for verifiable information.

<snipped>

Deserving of sticky status, in my opinion....