Need recommendation on red dot sight.

[Redhat]

I am now shopping for a good red dot sight for my new flat top carbine.

I'm not looking for a combat sight, just one I can use foir range games. I want to mount it in conjunction with either a Troy or LaRue BUIS.

So far I am considering the Burris FastFire or , as recommended on this board, a S.P.O T.

My hang-up, is I haven't been able to find out if the MRD's will co-witness with the irons.

Hope somebody can help me out.

Thanks.

[C4IGrant]

I am now shopping for a good red dot sight for my new flat top carbine.

I'm not looking for a combat sight, just one I can use foir range games. I want to mount it in conjunction with either a Troy or LaRue BUIS.

So far I am considering the Burris FastFire or , as recommended on this board, a S.P.O T.

My hang-up, is I haven't been able to find out if the MRD's will co-witness with the irons.

Hope somebody can help me out.

Thanks.

The SPOT would get my vote and will co-witness with just about everything.

I have some in stock if interested.



C4

[Redhat]

Thanks,

I've only qualified with te Comp M2. Is the SPOT identical in operation? What type battery do they use. Not much info on them so far.

[C4IGrant]

Thanks,

I've only qualified with te Comp M2. Is the SPOT identical in operation? What type battery do they use. Not much info on them so far.

No it isn't. It has a side illumination nob and lot less run time.


C4

[FJB]

I recently crunched some numbers on this issue primarily for Aimpoint Sights and then only those for military/LE applications that may need Aimpoint Sights for NVD use, thus only CompM series and not CompML series. Retail on CompML series are often $60 less than CompM. Also, these prices are Man Sugg Retail prices, thus higher than what many dealers are selling them. Example is that many dealers are selling the CompM4 for $700 and LaRue Tactical sells CompML2s with their LT-150 Mount for $480. However, to keep things Apples to Apples I used only Manufacturer Suggested Retail prices for CompM series.

CompM4 - $780 w/ Integral QRP II Mount, 2 MOA AA battery 80,000 hours
CompM3 - $556 w/o mount, 2 or 4 MOA dot 1/3N Lithium 50,000 hours
- $660 w/ QRP Mount @ $104
- $675 w/ LaRue Tactical 150 Mount @ $115
- $709 w/ ARMS Mount @ $153
- $721 w/ GG&G Mount @ $165
CompM2 - $490 w/o mount, 4 MOA dot 1/3N Lithium 20,000 hours
- $594 w/ QRP Mount @ $104
- $605 w/ LaRue Tactical 150 Mount @ $115
- $643 w/ ARMS Mount @ $153
- $655 w/ GG&G Mount @ $165
Micro T-1 - $650 w/ Integral Mount, 4 MOA dot CR2032 Lithium 50,000 hours (will require a riser mount for AR/M-4 use - LaRue Tactical and GG&G will be selling them shortly. Do not know the cost at this time.)

Life Cycle Costs

Also, some thing that also needs to be considered when purchasing an optic is durability, reliability, and life cycle costs. As P.R. says "buy cheap, buy twice." So something that is cheap...well is. Look at what the top tier carbine instructors use on their carbines, again as P.R. says "In police work they call that a clue." Anyway, my intent below is not to create another EO vs Aimpoint discussion but to demonstrate life cycle costs based on Apples and Apples as best possible (I am unaware of any other red dot optic using AA batteries), thus I used only the data provided by each manufacturer for their optics that are NVD compatible for military use, use AA battery(ies), and manufacturers suggested retail price, as well as an approximate battery cost from a Google search. Again, sale prices of the optics are often less.

EOTech 552A65 AA Batteries 350 Hours MSR price $479
EOTech 557.AR223 AA Batteries 600 Hours w/AA Alkaline (1100 w/AA Lithium) Hours MSR price $569

Aimpoint CompM4 single AA Battery 80,000 Hours MSR Price $780

All have integral mounts thus no additional cost for mounting solutions for any of these optics.

Comparative Life Cycle/Usage Costs:
Figures below are based on the new 7 year shelf life Alkaline AA batteries at 8760 hours/year = 61,320 Hours and not on AA Lithium battery life, which for an Aimpoint is 80,000 hours not sure for EOs whether it is more or not. Thus, kept it AA Alkaline to AA Alkaline.

$780 - Aimpoint CompM4 - one single AA
$654 - EOTech 552.A65 + 350 AA Batteries at $0.50 ea
$672 - EOTech 557.AR223 + 206 AA Batteries at $0.50 ea

You can conduct your own Apple to Orange life cycle comparisons ie. one type red dot vs another using different type batteries. Bottomline is that you need to factor in life cycle costs when determining real value when purchasing an optic. Cheaper is very rarely better.

S/F
P.S. Edited based on updated information on 557 from L3 website.

[Pat_Rogers]

Cheaper is very rarely better.

Well said Freddie. The numbers are interesting and should be useful for agencies in their decision making process.

Least expensive is giving way to best value, at least in the mil side.

[FJB]

Comparison of Military Combat Optics

Some things that need to be considered when purchasing a combat optic that you’ll trust with your life is durability, reliability, simplicity, and life cycle costs. My intent is not to create a debate about which optic is the best but to compare life cycle costs of military combat optics based on Apples and Apples as best possible, thus I used only the data provided by each manufacturer for their optics that are NVD compatible for military use, manufacturers suggested retail price, as well as an approximate battery cost based on a Google search.

Those optics compared were only those that are in use by the U.S. military and have a 1X to 3X or 4X magnification capability, thus the Trijicon TA01NSN-DOC with 1X Docter Optic, the new M68 CCO Aimpoint CompM4 w/3X Magnifier in a Twist Mount, ELCAN SpecterDR, and the EOTech 552.A65 & 557.AR223 w/ both 3X & 4x Magnifiers used by the Military.

Military Combat Optics – Total Costs

Aimpoint CompM4 w/3XMagnifier & Twist Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1486
Life Cycle Cost - 80,000 Hours w/ AA Lithium Battery
CompM4 MSR $780 + 3X Magnifier MSR $535 + Twist Mount MSR $171
Weight - CompM4 335g + 3X Magnifier w/Twist Mount 300g = 635g

ELCAN SpecterDR MSR + Life Cycle Cost $2100
Life Cycle Cost - 2,000 Hours w/ CR 1/3N Lithium = 40 Batteries X $3.49 ea = $140
SpecterDR $1960 + Life Cycle Costs $140
Weight - 598g

Trijicon TA01NSN-DOC MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1605
Life Cycle Cost – 10 Years Tritium + 17,000 Hours CR2032 Battery = 5 Batteries X $0.97 = $5
TA01NSN-DOC MSR $1600 + Life Cycle Cost $5
Weight – 424g

EOTech 552.A65 w/ 3X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1373
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
552.A65 MSR $479 + Life Cycle $365 + 3X w/ Flip Mount MSR $529
Weight – 552.A65 326g + 3X w/ Flip Mount 297g = 623g

EOTech 557.AR223 w/ 3X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1463
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
557.AR223 MSR $569 + Life Cycle $365 + 3X w/ Flip Mount MSR $529
Weight – 557.AR223 326g + 3X w/ Flip Mount 297g = 623g

EOTech 552.A65 w/ 4X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1703
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
552.A65 MSR $479 + Life Cycle $365 + 4X w/ Flip Mount MSR $859
Weight – 552.A65 326g + 4X w/ Flip Mount 453g = 779g

EOTech 557.AR223 w/ 4X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1793
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
557.AR223 MSR $569 + Life Cycle $365 + 4X w/ Flip Mount MSR $859
Weight – 557.AR223 326g + 4X w/ Flip Mount 453g = 779g

[jmart]

JMHO, but the battery life analysis only makes sense if your requirement is to keep the unit powered on for hours on end. If I were patrolling over in the sandbox, absolutely, I'd want long battery life. But if my normal routine is to power it up only when needed, and if my mission duration is measured in minutes/a couple of hours, then battery life, even if only a couple hundred hours, isn't that big of an issue.

Reliability is another issue altogether.

[FJB]

jmart,
Mission profile often does drive your requirements, however as numerous battles have proven the plan rarely survives the first bullet down range. Thus, what was intended to last a few minutes may often last a few days or weeks. Fully appreciating a systems complete costs along with capabilities is essential for proper procurement. Being able to have an optic that you can leave on constantly with minimal concerns about battery life, thus life cycle considerations, so that when you need your firestick it is ready to roll vice worrying about it shutting itself off prior to or during a fire fight or changing its batteries constantly is a good thing.

S/F

[Resq47]

I get a real kick out of optics that are either clones of proven systems or the real thing with a stated life of ~1000hrs...that don't make it through a day on a set of batteries. I'm not interested in lengthy explanations of fault in using a less than premium AA type cell or that 10hr life is acceptable because the unit cost is 40% less than the real deal. I'm not paid to shoot but I do enjoy knowing my optic will run for years on a useful setting, and the battery changes I've made consist of casual preventative maintenance and a $6 yearly tithe for a cell. THAT is good enough for me...



For the rest, here you go ^