CA police chief call for open carry ban

[John_Wayne777]

For example, the right to carry what ever firearm of your choosing. I can now only carry a fireamr aproved by the department, including when off duty.

...at least you can still carry a gun in a useful condition. Lots of folks can't do that because they don't have government's permission to do it. You won't find too much sympathy on that particular claim of hardship, bro.

From the article it is hard to tell if he is against concealed carry, he might fully support it.

Somehow I doubt it. Usually those who are trying to ban carrying guns are generally in favor of banning the carrying of guns no matter how they are carried. Concealed weapons are painted as a danger to police officers and so it should be banned. Openly carried guns are a danger to police officers and so it should be banned...etc. If he's pro concealed carry then he really sucks at ensuring his POV on that came through in the story.

[JSantoro]

remember, common sense is not so common.

Irrelevant, however laudable it may be and how much we enjoy it when others display it. Legislation attempting to forcibly induce it on the populace, in direct contravention to constitutionally mandated freedoms, is not the answer.

What you're talking about is simply something that you perceive will make it so that you won't have to engage in a particular mode of critical thought while at work. The citizenry should in no way give up their chosen method of carry for no better reason than you, or any other LEO, don't want to have to think too hard while on duty. Constant wargaming in your head and doing threat assessments as your environment and what's in it changes...that's part and parcel with your job.

If you don't want to have to do that, find something else to do. Otherwise, accept the fact that there's no earthly reason why you can't judge the presence of a visible firearm in nearly any situation against the actions of the individual carting it around. Gun, 2x4 with a nail in it, tire iron, prayer beads, 25# dumbell. No different than any other inanimate object. Anybody like me could snuff a life with any of those. For which one are you willing to detain or arrest with no other reason than having seen it?

[rifleman2000]

I agree with the fact that it is an officer/citizen safety issue. Lets say "officer" comes across Mr. dumy who is excercising his right to open carry, sure he is following the law by maintining an unloaded firearm. The officer in the other hand has no way of confirming this until he makes physical contact with the weapon. Officer tells Mr dumy dont reach for your weapon, Mr dumy says "oh its not loaded" as he reaches for it, Officer does what every peace officer is trained from day one in the academy, draws down on Mr. dummy and yells drop the weapon, MR. dumy is stuborned because he knows hes done nothing wrong since his weapon is unloaded and refuses to drop it. Officer fears for his life nad assumes Mr. dummy is a threat to his life. Officer shoots Mr. dummy... well you all get the picture.

Officer safety concern? Maintaining a paper law creates the "issue". Why is it illegal for a citizen to carry a loaded gun in the first place? And if it was legal, you would not have to "check" thus creating your uber paranoid response because of course any damn body with a gun that is not a LEO must be a criminal. Glad you are not in my state.

[Irish]

I agree with the fact that it is an officer/citizen safety issue. Lets say "officer" comes across Mr. dumy who is excercising his right to open carry, sure he is following the law by maintining an unloaded firearm. The officer in the other hand has no way of confirming this until he makes physical contact with the weapon.

How about leaving the citizen alone unless they're committing a crime?

This is why I am a big fan of CHLs. Every person I have come across with a CHL has done what they were trained to do when a police officer aproaches them, no chl holder has gotten hurt in my precense yet.

If CA were a "shall issue" state rather than a "may issue" state you would have a leg to stand on. Why not leave the open carrying person alone if they're not breaking a law? With no other alternatives available, gun owners have adopted the only lawful means of protecting themselves when law enforcement is not readily available to intervene during a forcible felony in progress.

People seem to think that LEOs are these people that feel only they should carry and no one else, and the constitution only aplies to them.

Obviously they feel that way when CA cops go around conducting unwarranted searches of people and their property when they aren't breaking any laws.

[glocktogo]

remember, common sense is not so common. I know most of us in this forum, wether you are LE or not have their minds in the right place when it comes to firearms, thats why we come here to self improve our knowledge collectively. I personally have come across some very "stupid" people who carry openly a fireamr and are "stupid" enough to reach for it in my precense. Their defense is "I was just going to hand it to you" Usually when they see a barrel pointed at their direction they tend to stop reaching, but does it really need to get to that level. The point is **some** people, not all, need to be educated on some basic common sense things when it involves firearms and contact with police. This is why I am a big fan of CHLs. Every person I have come across with a CHL has done what they were trained to do when a police officer aproaches them, no chl holder has gotten hurt in my precense yet.

People seem to think that LEOs are these people that feel only they should carry and no one else, and the constitution only aplies to them. Let me go ahead and let you know that I as LE had to give up many of the rights that most of you citizens have in order to protect and serve. For example, the right to carry what ever firearm of your choosing. I can now only carry a fireamr aproved by the department, including when off duty.

Do us all a favor and remember that you're a citizen too. You may have certain powers granted to you that give you authority over your fellow citizens, but you are not above them or apart from them in any way.

When you start believing you are is when problems arise.

[Palmguy]

“By far, the survey of membership was ‘ban it completely.’ It just makes it simpler,” James said.

I'm sure your jobs would be simpler if there was no 4th or 5th Amendments either, Chief. Luckily for us (except for those who live in California, apparently), freedom is not subordinate to making your damn job "simple".

Someone on this forum wrote this, says it quite well:

We should err on the side of liberty and recognize liberty is not about guaranteeing our safety, or the efficiency or comfort of government agents...

Officer safety concern? Maintaining a paper law creates the "issue". Why is it illegal for a citizen to carry a loaded gun in the first place? And if it was legal, you would not have to "check" thus creating your uber paranoid response because of course any damn body with a gun that is not a LEO must be a criminal. Glad you are not in my state.

Absolutely dead on.

I agree with the fact that it is an officer/citizen safety issue. Lets say "officer" comes across Mr. dumy who is excercising his right to open carry, sure he is following the law by maintining an unloaded firearm. The officer in the other hand has no way of confirming this until he makes physical contact with the weapon. Officer tells Mr dumy dont reach for your weapon, Mr dumy says "oh its not loaded" as he reaches for it, Officer does what every peace officer is trained from day one in the academy, draws down on Mr. dummy and yells drop the weapon, MR. dumy is stuborned because he knows hes done nothing wrong since his weapon is unloaded and refuses to drop it. Officer fears for his life nad assumes Mr. dummy is a threat to his life. Officer shoots Mr. dummy... well you all get the picture.

Wow. This is dripping with pure irony (among other things...). It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Do you run your reports through a word processor with a spell check feature before you submit them? Just curious.

One more in a long line of police administrators that can go fornicate themselves with a cactus.

Another epic one-liner from JW. Thanks brother, you just picked me up from my post-lunch crash.

[OTO27]

Boo freaking hoo. Don't ever join the military.

Did 5 years in my beloved Corps before going LE. I dont see why everyone gets so offended whe I simply point out point of view on this issue. I never said I was against conceal carry, my opinion simply was, as LE I cant help but be against open carry, theres just many too unknowns. Yes there are states that already have this in place and it works for them. However throw that into a high crime city and lets see what happens.

Maybe you should all attend a 9 month academy, another 9 months of FTO training, then get placed in the toughest neighborhoods, and see if your thoughts change.

I strongly support CCW, at least here in Texas you need back ground and a class, you get tought laws, safety, and obviously weapons handleling. But openly carrying you firearm unloaded just screams... I AM A LAW ABIDING CITYCEN WITH AN UNLOADED WEAPON, COME ROB ME AND TAKE MY GUN!

[Trajan]

I don't see the point in carrying an unloaded firearm.

[rifleman2000]

as LE I cant help but be against open carry, theres just many too unknowns.

This is pathetic.

How many criminals carry openly?

Why does a LEO have a special bubble around him/her that nobody can openly carry a gun in, yet you would happily (and rightly) support people carrying concealed around you (as you said).

When you see someone carrying openly, is it some pavlovian instinct to "stick em up" and frisk them?

If you can't tolerate being a LEO within the confines of the Constitution, then quit.

[Irish]

Did 5 years in my beloved Corps before going LE. I dont see why everyone gets so offended whe I simply point out my point of you on this issue. I never said I was against conceal carry, my opinion simply was, as LE I cant help but be against open carry, theres just many too unknowns. Yes there are states that already have this in place and it works for them. However throw that into a high crime city and lets see what happens.

Maybe you should all attend a 9 month academy, another 9 months of FTO training, then get placed in the toughest neighborhoods, and see if your thoughts change.

I strongly support CCW, at least here in Texas you need back ground and a class, you get tought laws, safety, and obviously weapons handleling. But openly carrying you firearm unloaded just screams... I AM A LAW ABIDING CITYCEN WITH AN UNLOADED WEAPON, COME ROB ME AND TAKE MY GUN!

Sppel chek, youse it. You obviously have no idea how difficult it is to get a concealed permit for the vast majority of citizens living in CA. Everybody talks about bad guys taking away an unloaded, openly carried weapon, please cite for me an incident or possibly two so that this fear can actually be shown to be based in reality. The difference between a wingnut OC'ing and concealing is a piece of clothing, get over it. As an American citizen I should not have to ask the government permission nor pay a tax to defend myself and my family, period.