NM - New Mexico will no longer recognize Utah CC permits. (Video)

[-gary]

"Effective immediately" That blows ass right there. What you were doing yesterday is now illegal today with no effective warning of any kind.

[Irish]

Yup, I live here in Albuquerque. Its easy to say the least. I carry no matter where I go, legal or not. And it can take six months but thats not NM deal, its FBI background. Same as getting an NFA weapon....

If it's the FBI background as you state than why in NV can you get approved sometimes in less than 2 weeks? UT has a legal requirement that you have your paperwork processed and permit issued within 60 days as long as you have no "issues". UT also charges 1/2 the price of a lot of states at only $65.25 for 5 years and a $10 renewal fee without having to "retest" or go through another class.

[Irish]

The trend isn't anti-CCW, it's more about getting the dollars for the permit back in state. Utah has made a shit ton of money (taxes and fees) because of their wide reaching CC permits reciprocity. These states just want a piece of the pie, and the only way they can ensure that people get the permit in their home state, and keep the money in state, is to not recognized other states permits. Don't get all "antsy in the pantsy" just yet.

Why not?!?!? I travel to NM all the time and this is a huge pain in the ass. I neither have time or inclination to obtain ANOTHER CC permit in another state and my UT permit made it possible to defend myself and my family prior to this BS. When is the time to get all "antsy in the pantsy"? When they've taken away all our rights and guns?!?! Rarely do I walk that road but give me a ****in' break! Now is the time to get pissed and stand up and say something. Maybe I'll just join the Open Carry crowd, no fees, no permission and less bullshit.

[Zhurdan]

Why not?!?!? I travel to NM all the time and this is a huge pain in the ass. I neither have time or inclination to obtain ANOTHER CC permit in another state and my UT permit made it possible to defend myself and my family prior to this BS. When is the time to get all "antsy in the pantsy"? When they've taken away all our rights and guns?!?! Rarely do I walk that road but give me a ****in' break! Now is the time to get pissed and stand up and say something. Maybe I'll just join the Open Carry crowd, no fees, no permission and less bullshit.

Whoa whoa whoaaaa! I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that I thought people were getting worried about Anti-CC rather than realizing it's a money issue. The CC movement is growing, and they want in on it, that's all I was getting at.

A smarter piece of legislation would be that a person is required to have their home states permit, while still allowing other states to maintain their reciprocity.

[Irish]

Whoa whoa whoaaaa! I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that I thought people were getting worried about Anti-CC rather than realizing it's a money issue. The CC movement is growing, and they want in on it, that's all I was getting at.

A smarter piece of legislation would be that a person is required to have their home states permit, while still allowing other states to maintain their reciprocity.

Sorry, maybe I was jumping the gun. I have lots of family in NM and go there a lot for work as well. After NV dropped FL & UT this past year it seems like more states will be headed that way. Again, sorry for the rant but I'm pissed.

FYI - NM isn't very 2nd Amendment friendly. Look at their alcohol laws VS concealed or open carry, they suck.

[four]

I remember a few years ago when they were trying to get the CCW laws passed in NM, I got into a debate with a man by the name of Steve Akin from down Carlsbad way. Steven was heavily involved in the push to get CCW through he legislature and on to the Gov's desk.

My position at the time was that the bill as proposed, No carry where they *sold* booze (read: grocery store), qualifying with every gun you planned to carry; was very close to no CCW at all. Steve made a point to say that it was a foot in the door and his strategy was incrimentalism. Get it on the books and then change the law.

I have to give it to Steve, they have done a lot with this strategy, and it's still working. they're getting restaurant carry in July. But the point is, this stuff changes all the time. Yes we have to keep up on it, but I think they're making more positive progress than not. and I'm not just saying that cause I lost a bet with Steve. But I'd bet he's back there trying to get DPS to change it again.

Having never had to rely on UT permits, I feel for you guys that need them and I agree, it sucks. I'm just happy that VA's permit is getting better everyday because it means I get to carry every time I'm back in home in NM.

[Irish]

Having never had to rely on UT permits, I feel for you guys that need them and I agree, it sucks. I'm just happy that VA's permit is getting better everyday because it means I get to carry every time I'm back in home in NM.

Florida's will cover it for now. However, I don't know how long that will be in effect and NM does not have a non-resident permit. This was taken off of the official NM site linked to above.

The state will also review the status of eighteen other states currently recognized on an informal basis, with the intent of entering into written agreements with these states to ensure compliance with New Mexico law. These states are: Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wyoming.

[gringop]

...yet another reason why I loathe the concept of a training requirement for CCW.

How would you feel about NM resident student drivers getting a Mexican drivers license that costs 1/3 of what a NM DL would cost, and requires no written or driving proficiency test? Do you think that letting 16 year olds loose in a car on the interstate with one 4 hour class and no testing is a good idea?

The fact is that the Utah CHL training requirements are a joke and if NM doesn't want to honor the Utah license then they are right to make that decision. It's the State of NM's right to make whatever decision they want.

When states bring their training and proficiency requirements up high enough to convince other states that their CHL holders are safe, then reciprocity works, just like with drivers licenses.

Now before I get a lot of replies about God given rights and the 2nd Amendment, let me say that I and the law agree that anyone can drive, or carry concealed, ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, without a license. But once you set out amongst the public, you need to show that you are safe, knowledgeable and mature enough to carry your gun, or drive your car.

After years of carrying, competing and training with firearms, I'm as sick of unsafe, immature and ignorant folks carrying firearms as I am of crappy drivers.

Gringop

[Irish]

How would you feel about NM resident student drivers getting a Mexican drivers license that costs 1/3 of what a NM DL would cost, and requires no written or driving proficiency test? Do you think that letting 16 year olds loose in a car on the interstate with one 4 hour class and no testing is a good idea?

The 2 don't work very well as a comparison.

The fact is that the Utah CHL training requirements are a joke and if NM doesn't want to honor the Utah license then they are right to make that decision. It's the State of NM's right to make whatever decision they want.

When states bring their training and proficiency requirements up high enough to convince other states that their CHL holders are safe, then reciprocity works, just like with drivers licenses.

Now before I get a lot of replies about God given rights and the 2nd Amendment, let me say that I and the law agree that anyone can drive, or carry concealed, ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, without a license. But once you set out amongst the public, you need to show that you are safe, knowledgeable and mature enough to carry your gun, or drive your car.
Reading books, putting on make up, texting, stuffing a burger down your throat etc. really shows how well that needing a drivers license has worked out. Look at Vermont, Alaska and soon to be Arizona and show me proof that training requirements help anything.

After years of carrying, competing and training with firearms, I'm as sick of unsafe, immature and ignorant folks carrying firearms as I am of crappy drivers.
Vermont and Alaska, again.

Gringop

Quick replies in red... hungry and it's lunch time.

Quick question, do you teach CC courses? Do you have a vested monetary interest in someone obtaining a permit?

[John_Wayne777]

How would you feel about NM resident student drivers getting a Mexican drivers license that costs 1/3 of what a NM DL would cost, and requires no written or driving proficiency test? Do you think that letting 16 year olds loose in a car on the interstate with one 4 hour class and no testing is a good idea?

When CCW holders demonstrate that they are as much of a problem in everyday life as the 16 year olds are on the road, that might be a valid comparison.

Oh, and if that whole 2nd amendment thing was done away with too.

When states bring their training and proficiency requirements up high enough to convince other states that their CHL holders are safe, then reciprocity works, just like with drivers licenses.

Training and proficiency requirements are baloney.

Now before I get a lot of replies about God given rights and the 2nd Amendment, let me say that I and the law agree that anyone can drive, or carry concealed, ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, without a license. But once you set out amongst the public, you need to show that you are safe, knowledgeable and mature enough to carry your gun, or drive your car.

My view on God given rights is that someone doesn't lose their god-given right to self defense because they happen to step off the boundaries of their property.

After years of carrying, competing and training with firearms, I'm as sick of unsafe, immature and ignorant folks carrying firearms as I am of crappy drivers.

Nobody likes morons who improperly handle firearms...but you know what? CCW holders in general seem to do a pretty good job of not doing anything to stupid with their guns. Yes, there are some incidents folks can point to of "that guy" with a CCW license...but I can point to probably an equal or greater number of "that guy" incidents among law enforcement and military personnel.

It's a fact of life that people will occasionally do dumb shit with firearms no matter how many hours of training they have or what they shot on the last Q course.

Of far greater concern is the propensity of governments to use any and all means at their disposal...including bureaucratic regulation and process...to keep decent people from having ready access to a useful means of self defense. A woman who just had the living shit beaten out of her by her boyfriend and who is in fear for her life shouldn't have to sit through a waiting period to get a gun or have to spend the kind of money I've spent on training for the grand privilege of waiting for the king's approval just to be able to defend herself because somebody gets the yuk face over the thought of "just anyone" being able to actually carry an effective means of self defense.

That's. Bogus.

All the Bubba-in-Walmart stories a body can recite do not change that basic reality.

The federal flight deck officer's program is a perfect example. It's been run by an organization that has resisted it at any and all turns, making it difficult for anybody to meet the regs. So we can shoot down a plane taken over by terrorists with a clear conscience, but God forbid that the pilot has a handgun in the cockpit! SOMEBODY MIGHT GET HURT!!!!

Histrionic predictions of doom and gloom have accompanied every attempt to liberalize carry laws and have never come true. Contrary to the predictions of the hysterical ninnies, there aren't gunfights breaking out over fender benders, small children aren't being gunned down in Wal-Mart because two CCW holders are exchanging gunfire over the last box of ho-hos...no blood running in the streets. In fact, it's been rather serene and the people who end up being shot by CCW holders generally tend to be people who deserve a bullet.

The bottom line is this:

NM getting pissy about the Utah training requirements will do precisely ZERO to improve the safety or competency of people carrying guns in NM. Upping the training requirement will do absolutely NOTHING to guarantee that people will be safer or more competent in handling firearms. Those of us who have real training with a firearm know better than to believe this action will have any positive impact.

It will, however, complicate life for people who are just trying to defend themselves on a daily basis....and as such it's unacceptable.

The more discretion left to government bureaucrats surrounding concealed carry, the more opportunity there will be for them to use that discretion to deny people what is a basic and fundamental right. That's why shall-issue laws had to be passed in the first place, because governments took the attitude that you had better give them a damn good reason to want to have a gun....either that or be politically connected...or if you are in New York, be a cokehead celebrity DJ. This is another splendid example of why training requirements are baloney and why giving government any discretion in regulating concealed carry is a bad idea.