NM - New Mexico will no longer recognize Utah CC permits. (Video)

[four]

thinking more about this, I am becoming more suspicious of the idea that DPS is doing this to make money for anyone. and I say this knowing the state, and quiet a few people in state government. I have two lines of logic here.

1) It's New Mexico, and quite frankly, anyone that's creative enough to come up with this as a money maker is probably not in state government. There are many things I love about NM. but I've never known them to be this pro-active or creative at the state level.

2) It's DPS. Every time someone wants to get a promotion they have to show they're Making A Difference. Someone's probably looking to get a promotion, or keep a promotion so they started the review process. Sometimes they need a hobby in Santa Fe, and re-arranging standing policy happens.

whether or not NM has higher standards than UT, or UT isn't a good program, or what ever, I don't know. but this smells more like a busy body than an old boys favor. Typically graft and corruption in Santa Fe is no where near this sophisticated.

[Terracoma]

Finally, a thread that I can contribute to...

I took my ccw class in Feb. and it will be longer than 6 mos. before I will receive my permit.

Hell you've got to wait 6 months for a permit! That is ridiculous.

I took a course in Albuquerque in December 2009, had my paperwork filled out and notorized just after the new year, and turned in my paperwork at the DPS office on January 14th. The woman at the front counter quoted me "90 to 120 days" until I would receive my permit in the mail, and by all accounts from the local gun store jocks, this woman knows her shit... Color me surprised when I found a letter from DPS in my mailbox on February 6th with my permit inside. Probably just luck on my part, but most folks seem to be waiting around 60 days.

Also you still cannot carry into your local stop and rob due to the fact they sell alcohol. Correct?

Concealed carry is allowed anywhere where alcohol is sold for off-site consumption... So no bars, no restaurants, no diners, et cetera, as those locations sell alcohol for on-site consumption. As it was noted above by another poster above, we'll have restaurant carry as of July 1st, but I think SB40 only covers restaurants that serve beer and wine and garner at least 60% of their revenue from food sales, so places like Applebee's and Chili's are still off-limits because they sell liquor.

... Babysteps, I guess.

The more demanding training requirement? I believe it's 15 rounds at 7 or 10 yards, fired with the biggest caliber you intend to carry (i.e., qualify with a .45 automatic, or a .45 Auto Rim or Single Action Army in revolvers and you can carry anything with a smaller bore diameter).

Yup, I live here in Albuquerque. Its easy to say the least.

They must have upped the requirement at some point to 25 total rounds fired, but otherwise spot-on to what I did in December: 15 rounds at 3-yards, 10 rounds at 7-yards. After some digging, it's outlined in 10.8.2.15 Section B, so maybe it's a late 2005 revision? The target is 12" wide by 18" tall and each round landed within the target is worth four points. A score of 72% (18 rounds) must be achieved to meet the qualifications. I've heard it referred to as the "Stevie Wonder" test... Can't imagine why, though.

But once you set out amongst the public, you need to show that you are safe, knowledgeable and mature enough to carry your gun, or drive your car.

I think that this would be a good compromise for something like national CCW reciprocity... Realistically, we'd need the prissy states like California and New York to be on board, so reasonable concessions would probably have to be made to their support, since most states aren't ready to remove permitting entirely. I don't think something like a $35 fee and 30-day background check are too unreasonable, but that's my subjective opinion.

No intention of dragging this thread off-track, so perhaps that's best discussed in the other thread.

[gringop]

The 2 don't work very well as a comparison.

Why not? Both activities are legal without permits on private property, both are regulated by the state as to age limits, training proficiency, both require users to be responsible, judicious and skilled to be safe.

Reading books, putting on make up, texting, stuffing a burger down your throat etc. really shows how well that needing a drivers license has worked out. Look at Vermont, Alaska and soon to be Arizona and show me proof that training requirements help anything.

Vermont and Alaska, again.

Sorry, I thought that this thread was about state to state reciprocity. Lets look at what other states honor Vermont, Alaska and Arizona non-permit CHL carry.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/
What other states honor Vermont? Not a single one.
What other states honor Alaska without the Alaskan CHL that requires testing? Not a one. Alaska specifically provides a State CHL to folks wanting one for reciprocity with other states.
What other states will honor AZ's permitless concealed carry? It's too soon to know but I suspect the same number as for Vermont and Alaska.

If you live in a state that requires little or no testing for CHL, good for you. Carry and defend yourself to your heart's content. But don't get butthurt when other states don't give CHL reciprocity to your state or a third state with lower proficiency standards.

Quick replies in red... hungry and it's lunch time.

Quick question, do you teach CC courses? Do you have a vested monetary interest in someone obtaining a permit?

I have no vested monetary interest in folks getting CHL permits. I don't teach the Texas State CHL class.

Gringop

[shootist~]

Where did the "6 months" come from? My last NM renewal came through in 6 or 7 weeks. NM's CCW law is fairly new and slowly improving, and considerably better than no CCW about 6+ years ago.

Legal carry in restaurants, etc., where beer and wine is served (but not hard liquor) starts July 1.

[steveaikens]

I remember a few years ago when they were trying to get the CCW laws passed in NM, I got into a debate with a man by the name of Steve Akin from down Carlsbad way. Steven was heavily involved in the push to get CCW through he legislature and on to the Gov's desk.

My position at the time was that the bill as proposed, No carry where they *sold* booze (read: grocery store), qualifying with every gun you planned to carry; was very close to no CCW at all. Steve made a point to say that it was a foot in the door and his strategy was incrimentalism. Get it on the books and then change the law.

I have to give it to Steve, they have done a lot with this strategy, and it's still working. they're getting restaurant carry in July. But the point is, this stuff changes all the time. Yes we have to keep up on it, but I think they're making more positive progress than not. and I'm not just saying that cause I lost a bet with Steve. But I'd bet he's back there trying to get DPS to change it again.

NM continues to recognize the same states it did before Friday, 4/23, except UT. Reciprocity is being reviewed with other states and may actually improve. At this time, other than TX, NM does not have a reciprocal agreement with any other state but is in the process of converting states currently honored, to agreements.

For the record, there is significant rhetoric on numerous forums claiming this is about the money, about NM instructors whining about losing business to UT instructors and all kinds of crap. Crap is exactly what that is. It's not about money. The DPS CCU spends $81 per original license and $67 per renewal for the clearances and other associated fees to print and mail the licenses - hardly a moneymaker. Comments that NM wants to "sell non-resident permits" are also crap. NM does not offer non-resident permits now, and it is HIGHLY unlikely that NM ever will. I have never heard one word from any NM instructor that UT certified instructors were undercutting them.

This is about the NM Statute. If a state does not meet the requirements of our Statute, it does not qualify for honors. Utah does not now, nor have they ever had a handgun proficiency/competence requirement in their training. Some have claimed that their instructor required them to shoot a live fire exercise - good for them, they did what they should have. However it is not a requirement in the UT Statutes.

I am the person that compiled the original list of states for DPS, that met our Statute of "substantially similar" in the requirement for reciprocity. Utah was NEVER on that list - it was added to the list by someone at DPS IN ERROR. DPS has corrected that error. DPS has requested an up-to-date list. That list has been compiled and they now have it - I have re-verified that data. It includes recent changes to other states Statutes [NE and KS] that now qualify them for honors/reciprocity with NM. Whether DPS secures agreements with those states is up to DPS and that state, but they do have the data and the authority to make those agreements, they are re-visiting those honors/agreements.

The bottom line here is pretty simple. The statute is crystal clear in it's requirements. Meet them, you're on the list - don't meet them, you're off the list.

Lastly, firearms laws are very difficult to pass in NM. Changes are slowly being made, one small step at a time. four, you are correct that I told you some time back that incrementalism works here. The latest change - SB40, the alcohol bill allowing concealed carry licensees to now carry in 640 restaurants that sell beer and wine - is a perfect example of that. Go here to find out how to know where you will be able to carry after July 1. We were able to convince Gov. Richardson to send a message to the Senate to make SB 40 germane to the short - fiscal only - session in 2010. We got that bill passed and signed into law through significant negotiation, which forced me to kill another bill I was pushing that also improved our Statute. It's a slow, careful balancing act folks - but incrementalism works.

I hope this helps you all to better understand why NM DPS took the action they did - and puts the crap to rest.

Shootest - the *6 mos* comes from the worst case scenerio when clearences are slow to be returned to the CCU for original licenses, a new clerk not having correct information regarding renewals, and due to backlogs at the FBI or other unforseen problems that come up with original licenses. Four to six weeks is the real world average. However, some have taken longer to process.

Steve Aikens
Founder, www.handgunlaw.us
Clovis, NM

[baffle Stack]

Mine took about a month.