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Thread: Magazine as a monopod?

  1. #21
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    Couldn't agree more. What impressed me most about the Magpul class was it was principle driven, and not intended as a vehicle to sell products.

    Costa, Drake and Kerry never once said their way was the ONLY way -- it was A WAY that worked based on economy of motion, ergonomics and balancing speed with accuracy. The principles used are golden, even though there may be multiple applications based on a given situation. The situation really dictates the technique, not the other way around. If only more shooters were as open-minded about learning, rather than insisting they were the end-all because they used one system that worked. Breaking old paradigms is awesome, and broadens the knowledge base.

    At my CA POST Patrol Rifle Instructor Course, the instructor said using the magazine as a monopod was a NO NO, because it could create stoppages. I cheated anyway, and didn't have any problems. The instructor was awesome, as he never claimed to be the best -- but he HAD been trained by a lot of world class trainers.

    For the NRA course, monopodding is a NO NO. I cheated anyway, and didn't have any problems. The instructor was a Vietnam-era GySgt, who had forgotten more than most of us will know -- and he came by it honestly.

    Took the Magpul HVWM Course in San Bernardino in February of 2010, and just about fell over when Costa recommended using the magazine as a monopod. Said I'd been "cheating" that way for years, but so many other instructors seemed to frown on it. Costa, Drake and Kerry all said the same thing, "If it works, why wouldn't you use it?"

    Can't mess with success, and the truth can have more than one angle on it.

    There's no such thing as cheating in a gunfight. In fact, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!

    And Costa's "dropping into the prone" is more like landing in a one-handed push-up. Dude moves like a snake. Most of us weren't nearly as fast or graceful, but gravity was still our friend!

    Yeah, been hearing about not using the magazine as monopod from all kinds of folks for almost 30 years.

    Saw a student rifle have a rearward pressure-induced stoppage with an out-of-spec magazine -- when rearward pressure was applied, it would stop. If forward pressure was applied on the mag, it would run. He would have had problems using this magazine as a monopod.

    In the meantime, all of the other magazines he had were checked and ran like sewing machines. Ditched the magazine, end of problem. Have only run into a few out-of-spec magwells, and they were with Olys.

    STRONGLY recommend testing ALL mags thoroughly before using them in the field. Assuming they are GTG just because they are brand new in package is a HUGE mistake. All equipment should be vetted before use, regardless of manufacturer or other techniques.

    As always, JMHO, and YMMV.


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Katar View Post
    I was just thinking that when I read one of the above posts, and then I read yours. I guess he changed his mind since AOTTC.

    To the OP, when shooting from prone, both elbows and the 30 round mag on the deck is a really stable shooting position.
    Last edited by PRGGodfather; 04-29-10 at 14:33.
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  2. #22
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    i remember in the magpul DVDs when they went prone they went to the ground supported by the support hand, not diving onto the magazine.

  3. #23
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    I wouldn't drop on a gun in the prone... just because I'd be afraid I'd land on the optic, shove the muzzle into the dirt and obstructing the barrel bore/screw up the muzzle crown etc.

    As thin as the walls are on an AR-15/M-16 magazine, I'd be afraid I'd damage it, as well.

    Just my observation.

  4. #24
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    Magazine monopod is good to go, as long as your gear supports it.
    Some people have so much crap on their chests that getting that low is nigh impossible unless they have a built-up area to plant the mag.

    I have slammed M4s and M16A4s into the ground so hard the mag was 1 inch deep in the dirt. No problems. The mags used were proven O-Kay mags with Gen 1 or 2 Magpul followers. I was able to induce stoppages with old black-follower mags (I am not blaming the follower, simply giving an idea of age) by pushing the magazine into a piece of cover with all my weight and firing as quickly as I could. Out of 5 or 6 mags I had 2 to 3 stoppages per magazine. All stoppages were nose-dives below the feed-ramps (M16A4, no M4 ramps).
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  5. #25
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    I took Magpul Carbine 1 in the fall of 2009, and at that time the MD instructors were noting that any decent quality magazine should be able to take the brunt of you and the weapon hitting the deck.

    Support hand comes down, and then the weapon hits the deck via the magazine. Philosophy was, when you're getting shot at, you're probably just gonna let the weapon/magazine hit the deck, so train that way. If you magazines can't handle it, get better magazines.

    I've abused my PMAGs and Lancer L5 mags with no ill effects. "Dynamic prone" doesn't seem to be a challenge for the magazines either.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetreatHell View Post
    Funny thing about this is that in the first Magpul Dynamics DVD, the Art of the Tactical Carbine, one of the students (Debbie?) had their mag resting on the deck in the grass (using it as a monopod) when they were about to BZO their carbines, and Travis Haley saw this and walked over to the student and told her she needed to get that magazine up off the deck so that it doesn't induce a stoppage of her weapon.

    Here's the actual dialog for those wondering.

    Costa: If you can, we try to keep the magazine off the deck. Mainly because it can cause a weapon malfunction. Okay. If you have pressure pushing this way on the magazine, if you keep forward pressure, meaning if the magazine is actually now going this way, forward, there's a good chance you're gonna have a malfunction. So that's why, as a rule of thumb, you wanna keep that magazine up off the ground.

    Haley: It comes down to a gear issue. Uh, if you have doubt about your gear not workin' on the ground, then don't put it there. They should be reliable on the ground, so if ever get on the ground and you fire, um, you know it's a good test. Put your, put all the weight on your weapon system, the magazine, fire some rounds out, and if you have a malfunction, I'd suggest throwing that magazine away and getting another one.

  7. #27
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    we were always taught NEVER with GI mags, but with Pmags i was always taught GO FOR IT..

    i say this because our instructors in ECS demonstrated for us and with a GI mag every couple rounds would mis-feed.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Some guy not brave enough to put his name on it, so he slapped Jefferson's name on it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by opmike View Post
    Here's the actual dialog for those wondering.

    Costa: If you can, we try to keep the magazine off the deck. Mainly because it can cause a weapon malfunction. Okay. If you have pressure pushing this way on the magazine, if you keep forward pressure, meaning if the magazine is actually now going this way, forward, there's a good chance you're gonna have a malfunction. So that's why, as a rule of thumb, you wanna keep that magazine up off the ground.

    Haley: It comes down to a gear issue. Uh, if you have doubt about your gear not workin' on the ground, then don't put it there. They should be reliable on the ground, so if ever get on the ground and you fire, um, you know it's a good test. Put your, put all the weight on your weapon system, the magazine, fire some rounds out, and if you have a malfunction, I'd suggest throwing that magazine away and getting another one.
    Thanks for posting that. I thought it was Haley that said it, but looks like it was Costa.
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    Paul

  9. #29
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    In one of Todd Jarrett's youtube videos he takes an M4 and intentionally pushes the gun's make on the deck and dumps rounds in full auto down range to show that it doesn't cause malfs.

  10. #30
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    I took a class in which the instructor was also a "High Power" shooter and discouraged it. I did it and shot better than most because they tried other methods. I felt if others had used it, I would have been in the norm. Very easy-very stable. I still practice other methods, but if I had my druthers, pmag is GTG.

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