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Thread: To sling or not to sling?

  1. #51
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    Classic

    [QUOTE=John_Wayne777;644260]Of all the potential worries in life, the possibility of a dude who has busted into my house strangling me to death with the sling of my rifle has to rank pretty much at the bottom of the list, somewhere between figuring out how to gently break it to Kate Beckinsdale and Heidi Klum that I can only really satisfy one eternal love slave and being turned into a newt.

    Excellent post Sir!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc6177 View Post
    I was at the class with the Veracity and Pathfinder and I found the sling thing to be just they way they prefered to teach. BUt everytime they brought it up they also prefaced it with basically"This is what our opinion is but you can ignore it if you want."

    Not worth getting worked up about. Also I think the premise they are working off is that they will have their secondary and if the rifle goes dry or has a malfuntion it's just a big club that is in the way at that point. Drop it and engage with your secondary.


    This may or may not have caused physical sickness with some of the more gear queerish folks there who were somewhat adverse to the idea of dropping their rifle in the dirt.

    Did I enjoy the class? Yup. Do I still plan on have a sling on my rifle? Probably. Did I learn a whole bunch of stuff specifically during the malfunction junction drill? Hell yes.
    Thanks for jumping in to the thread.

    Great class.

  3. #53
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    For work, a sling is a must for me. At home, no sling. Just something else to snag.
    Independent Field Testing/R & D

    Better to die for something than live for nothing

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selftest View Post
    If a bad guy was close enough to you to grab your slung rifle, wouldn't you WANT it slung?
    What if he's really BAD?

    There's a school of thought from a (not all) two point house that believes if you are carrying a secondary weapon system the procedure is different. Say a bad guy (who is much bigger and badder than you) gets the drop on you and grabs your muzzle. He has your ass and you cannot bring the primary to bear on the threat because bad guy was quick/smart enough to direct your muzzle away from him as he reeled you in.

    Scenario: Steps out from a corner as you are clearing and gains control of the muzzle and begins to close while bringing you in to him wielding an edged weapon to ruin your evening. I'll come back to the secondary in a moment...

    While up and on your feet, the primary is effectively out of the fight for you at this point and if this dude is really big, many of the retention jerk around games will not work.

    They advocate "bowing" to the threat from the waist and tossing the two point sling over your head(often snagging kit on your head, but let them have all of it) as you draw and engage with your sidearm. Putting fire on the threat from your secondary will happen faster than your 'gifted' primary can be turned around and used on you.

    Now this is a pretty scary scenario and I'd explore more viable options such as dropping back and away and engaging with the primary as it straightens out on the threat from supine without relinquishing control of it.

    I have seen this drill however in some schools that advocate the two point.

    I run single point slings on all my stand-up fighting guns so this little trade isn't an option for me.

    All of my M4's have an ASAP plate so my MS2 slings will interface with them but they sit in the safe or under my bed slick (no sling attached). My bugout rig (Eagle SKD Chest Rig) has an extra sling stashed in the velcro sandwich pocket that I can hook up to later if I'm grabbing a rifle and the light fighting load and going out the door.
    Mike Olivella
    Airborne Training Director
    Solkoa, Inc.


    www.solkoa.com

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I think that many instructors are just looking to be different and make a name for themselves by being different.

    Yes, someone can manhandle you (or try) if your carbine is attached to your body by a sling. Why is he that close to begin with?
    I agree. I like slings on my long guns. To me it's just like having a holster to carry a pistol.
    Last edited by jtb0311; 05-08-10 at 14:49.

  6. #56
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    Everything I have has slings with the exception of the HD Shotty.

  7. #57
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    In law enforcement a sling is a necessity. If you have to hands-on with a suspect, you need to be able to get the long gun out of the way without laying a weapon on the deck unsecured. By the book, the guy with long gun is always the "cover officer" but in the real world, you may be the only one able to perform the necessary functions. This happened to me once, carrying my 870, backing up a K-9 officer on a track. When we found the bad guy, hiding in a bush inside of a muddy swamp, I was the only officer who could secure and search the suspect; the K-9 officer has to control the K-9. So I slid my 870 behind me, dragged the guy out and cuffed him. I don't think I would have liked to drop my 870 in 4 inches of muddy water! This could also have happened on a busy city street with dozens of people around, again another place I wouldn't want my long gun unsecured on the deck as I dealt with a suspect.

    Besides, as many have pointed out the sling serves many other functions. And while my beside pistol lacks a holster, I also go to work armed, and you can be damn sure my Sig sits in a holster and my patrol rifle has a sling!

    And no, we don't teach any bludgeoning techniques with either the rifle or the shotgun, just as we don't teach any pistol-whipping techniques with the pistol.
    The opinions expressed on this board are mine and mine alone. They do not represent any departments or organizations I may be a member of.


    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." - ILN, 4/19/30

    "He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative." - Varied Types

    G.K. Chesterton

  8. #58
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    I was in last week's 3-day PFC carbine course held in Connecticut and there were more than a few of us who were initially resistant to the "no sling" philosophy that PFC described. Afterall, your sling is an integral part of your kit, right?

    The operational arm of their PFC does not use slings, so it's not like they are dreaming this up as instructors with no real world application. I have run my M4 with several different slings, including the Magpul MS2 and the Vickers 2-point. At no point did the PFC instructors force anyone to take their sling off and there were several guys who ran with them. By the end of Day 2, it was pretty conclusive that we were all manipulating our rifles a hell of a lot better without the slings, and that we were doing transfers and transitions tons faster than even the fastest guy operating with a sling.

    To avoid any confusion from the above posts, PFC didn't advocate "dropping your rifle on the ground" as part of the SOP for a transition, instead, retaining it in your support side hand dropped to pocket height where it's under your control, but out of your working space.

    PFC's take on slings was that they serve a purpose SOMETIMES, but being hooked up to your rifle via sling all of the time without a specific reason is a paradigm worth questioning. Like leaving your holster connected to your pistol. The example Ray gave was that the last time he slung up was almost a year ago when he was getting on a helicopter. Same would go for climbing, etc. Granted, there are agencies and units that require guys to be slung up 100% of the time, so for those folks, it's near impossible to give it a go. For a civilian shooter I can't see a reason why not to at least try it.

    In our course, there was no talk about "getting strangled with your own sling" just that it's an accessory that you might find gets in your way and limits your options for weapon manipulation and use.

    Finally, and I don't think this is something that PFC said, but it's interesting to note that a number of the instructors who suggest/demand the use of a sling also have their company's logo on that sling. PFC has no such motivation.

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