Help For Beginners in Regards to Standing Then Moving

[Mac5.56]

Hey All,

I have been making a point to get out and shoot once a week for the last 7 or so months. It doesn't always happen, but I am very consistent. I keep my targets and there is no doubt I am improving. I am very capable at shooting prone, in a kneeling prone, or using an environmental factor such as a tree, ledge, ext to help me stabilize.

But I have noticed that my standing shots still feel loose and wild. Frankly I'm not hitting my targets as well as should be.

I have looked up stances on this forum and elsewhere, as well as used the search, but does anyone have a basic starting off point they would suggest for me to start getting on target more while standing? After that what about moving and shooting?

My targets are usually 8 and 6" circles, and I get about 35% on target, there is no MOA to speak of that is worth noting.

I have access to a place to shoot, the ammo, ext, but I would like to do the training on my own before I attend a class. I learn by pushing myself first, and I learn best by being able to focus by myself or with a group of trusted people.

So what do you think, where should I start?

[kmrtnsn]

Have someone take your picture standing in the stance you shoot in and post it here.

[VMI-MO]

The stance I have been taught, and use is pretty easy to fall into.

Way 1: Stand squared up to someone, and have them push you back. If you are wired correctly (right handed) you should step back with your right leg to catch yourself. This is the foot posture I use. My distance to the target dictates how much I lean. If I m drilling 5-10rds fast I will be leaning forward quite a bit. I am on the balls of my feet with a healthy bend at the knees and lower back.

Way 2: Assume the natural stance if you were about to get in a fist fight. Now adjust it to fit a rifle. It should end up very close to the stance above.

If I am at increased range, I usually find myself standing up more.

I have looked at footage of myself moving and shooting in dynamic environments and the stance described above is very close to what I am like when I move.













PJ

[Mac5.56]

First thing I may be doing wrong is that I shooting standing at targets that are over 25 yards away. This may be helping or hurting me, I'm not sure.

As for my stance, well, I will try and get a photo, but basically it is what you see above, but my support arm is against the mag-well pulling the gun towards my body (not the magazine, the well). The angle of the hand is similar to that seen on the angled magpul grip.

Should I maybe move in closer? What would be a suggested range to start really working on this???

[igoswoop]

I have access to a place to shoot, the ammo, ext, but I would like to do the training on my own before I attend a class. I learn by pushing myself first, and I learn best by being able to focus by myself or with a group of trusted people.

So what do you think, where should I start?

In a course. You have a great attitude about pushing failure points but do it under the guidance of a qualified firearms instructor! Crawl, walk, run... If you learn to crawl in an inefficient manner you will progress slower than if you are taught to crawl correctly from the beginning. Shooting schools of thought and techniques are constantly evolving but the learning environment you can experience in a course can be rehearsed alone for sustainment and progression.

Get your self a timer. Run some drills. Go as fast as you can until your accuracy suffers. Be as accurate as you can until your speed suffers.

There are tons of excellent training resources available. Watch some training videos. Try some of the techniques and use what you like & discard what doesn't work for you.

Be safe...

[6933]

Your stance should be a "fighting" stance, as in you were getting ready to get into a fist fight. If rt. handed- left leg forward, legs more or less shoulder width apart. Knees slightly bent. Chest should be forward almost or over left knee. Possibly think of it as getting ready to shoot for the takedown if you are familiar with this. Elbows should have a slight bend. Head not tilted to either side. This was how I was taught at TigerSwan so I consider it the way to go. You'd be much better served to take a quality training course from the likes of TigerSwan, EAG, MagPul, Larry Vickers, or Kyle Lamb. It's really hard to get the gist of it over the 'net or by watching a DVD. No substitute for training classes.

[TriumphRat675]

Take a course. Spend your pre-course time learning basic trigger control and sight alignment, then take a beginner's course for the rest. No use in building in bad habits from the get-go. That's what I did, and unlearning them sucks.

[VMI-MO]

First thing I may be doing wrong is that I shooting standing at targets that are over 25 yards away. This may be helping or hurting me, I'm not sure.

As for my stance, well, I will try and get a photo, but basically it is what you see above, but my support arm is against the mag-well pulling the gun towards my body (not the magazine, the well). The angle of the hand is similar to that seen on the angled magpul grip.

Should I maybe move in closer? What would be a suggested range to start really working on this???

The smaller the target, the further away, the more you will have to apply the fundamentals. Shooting at a 8" dot at 100m takes alot more skill than a 8" dot at 25m.

I would say stick with engaging targets at greater range. However have some sort of back stop to the target so you can see where your impacts are so you can identify potential problems.

As for the support hand grip. I run it far out.
The link below has some info about support hand grip.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42168

If you are looking for accurate shooting techniques similar to high power or the like, the above info might not be very pertinent. The info is more geared toward fighting with a gun.


PJ

[Mac5.56]

In a course. You have a great attitude about pushing failure points but do it under the guidance of a qualified firearms instructor! Crawl, walk, run... If you learn to crawl in an inefficient manner you will progress slower than if you are taught to crawl correctly from the beginning. Shooting schools of thought and techniques are constantly evolving but the learning environment you can experience in a course can be rehearsed alone for sustainment and progression.

Get your self a timer. Run some drills. Go as fast as you can until your accuracy suffers. Be as accurate as you can until your speed suffers.

There are tons of excellent training resources available. Watch some training videos. Try some of the techniques and use what you like & discard what doesn't work for you.

Be safe...

Thank you for your response. Would you be willing to narrow down the resources you talk about, and suggest a few places to start in regards to videos ext?

[Mac5.56]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it, and any help you can give me in regards to videos, online sources ext would be great.

I want to clarify something. I'm sure that many of the hot shots on here think that people like me, when we say this, are essentially indicating that we're not committed to the discipline when we say things like "I don't feel like taking a course", or "I can't take a course". And I understand where your coming from, but it isn't always the case.

I have an intense background with my own personal growth and response in regards to learning, especially when it comes to physical activities. I was a pro skater before I was 17, I was more then capable on a snowboard, trained white water rafting guide, great rock climber, and I am still very very active in other areas. I've given up the first three for the sake of my body, but that's a side note. I have been involved in outdoor sports my entire life, and I can tell you that the one thing I hate more then anything is the extreme sport male super ego. Especially when that ego comes from an instructor. Or from the majority of the good ol'boys that are regulars in said course, said climbing region, said mountain ext. Honestly, it drives me absolutely bat shit crazy.

It is no secret that this ego is pretty damn apparent in the firearms world as well. So, I would rather spend my money on ammo, training by myself, or with people I know, then taking a carbine course from a group of people that I have no idea how big they think their virtual balls are until I end up on sight with them after paying them money.

This fact alone honestly makes me reluctant to take a course.

Also on the pragmatic side, I am getting married in three months, then a two week honey moon. I already got into trouble for putting off the invites because I wanted to drive four hours to a gun show. I have a solo art exhibition in two weeks, and another in September. Getting out of state for a training course in the next 6 months is not possible at all, and I want to work on things while all of this is going on.

When I do decide to take a course I will be doing a ton of research to find out which provider is the least "big dick" about their approach, and the most practical, but until then I figured I'd ask where to start on my own.

Thanks