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Thread: Vintage AR and Clone pic thread.....

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    Was it burst fire?
    Yes it was the 3-round burst model with the 14.5" barrel and Troy (or somebody else's) quadrail mounted in place of the plastic handguard. Personally I prefer the factory handguard and/or the Magpul handguard over that damn rail. All it did was add extra weight. For the longest time we could not even mount any accessories on the rails anyway (very stupid). Finally enough of us raised hell so they authorized foregrips, etc.,

    We couldn't use any magnifying optics but they gave us EoTech 552(s) that appeared to have been refurbished and really didn't last long. Again, we raised hell and finally they purchased some new Aimpoint H2 red dots that replaced whatever EoTech(s) were left. I had that on my weapon until I retired.

    To be honest I really didn't like the 14.5" barrels. Didn't seem too accurate or as accurate as I thought they would be or thought they should've been at 100 yards. We used Speer LEO Gold Dot 64(s) as ammo and that's what we were restricted to then. I qualified with that quarterly but only to show it being used on paper (recorded inventory).

    I don't mind telling folks that my first go-to long arm was my issued and faithful Remington 12 gauge SBS from Scattergun Technologies. I loved that shotgun and I hated parting with it. I would've only replaced it with a semi-auto had one ever become available.

    Folks may disagree but I'll take that 12 gauge any day over that M4 at least for anything 50 yards or less in LEO duties.
    Last edited by GRA556; 02-11-18 at 11:29.
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  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    That would remove M16A2 from retro status by your logic. Retro in respect to Stoner rifles is any model that is no longer produced under DOD contract. The M4 is no longer produced as far as I know of, making it "retro.". It is used like many antiques are sitting in armories.
    Yes, by my logic - the M16A2 should technically never fit in with the retro crowd (because it's Old-School, not retro ), but that's aside from the fact that just because a weapon is no longer produced under contract does not automatically make it retro or even vintage.
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  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by creedal View Post
    SOPMOD kit came out in 1993, no? That's 25 years ago.

    I would think early SOPMOD configuration M4a1 would be about "retro" by now.





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    I agree.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRA556 View Post
    Yes it was the 3-round burst model with the 14.5" barrel and Troy (or somebody else's) quadrail mounted in place of the plastic handguard. Personally I prefer the factory handguard and/or the Magpul handguard over that damn rail. All it did was add extra weight. For the longest time we could not even mount any accessories on the rails anyway (very stupid). Finally enough of us raised hell so they authorized foregrips, etc.,

    We couldn't use any magnifying optics but they gave us EoTech 552(s) that appeared to have been refurbished and really didn't last long. Again, we raised hell and finally they purchased some new Aimpoint H2 red dots that replaced whatever EoTech(s) were left. I had that on my weapon until I retired.

    To be honest I really didn't like the 14.5" barrels. Didn't seem too accurate or as accurate as I thought they would be or thought they should've been at 100 yards. We used Speer LEO Gold Dot 64(s) as ammo and that's what we were restricted to then. I qualified with that quarterly but only to show it being used on paper (recorded inventory).

    I don't mind telling folks that my first go-to long arm was my issued and faithful Remington 12 gauge SBS from Scattergun Technologies. I loved that shotgun and I hated parting with it. I would've only replaced it with a semi-auto had one ever become available.

    Folks may disagree but I'll take that 12 gauge any day over that M4 at least for anything 50 yards or less in LEO duties.
    Did your lower say Colt or FNH M4 on it? I have never had accuracy issues with the 14.5" barrels. I currently have a SOCOM barrel and I shoot playing sized card groups at 400 meters with a non magnified red dot with a DD RISII FSP from the prone position. I would guess it shoots better than I do. I did have an old M16A1 in the Navy briefly, that was so loose between the upper and lower that it was not particularly accurate. It was a rattle trap, had to qualify with it in Iraq because our armory got delayed in transit.

  5. #365
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    I don't know about vintage or old school.. But the M4 is definitely in the retro category, the very definition of retro is recent history. In the context of Stoner rifle evolution it makes sense to be retro. Whether or not this forum is intended for X/M4 photos is up to the mods.

    Last edited by Core781; 02-11-18 at 12:45.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    I don't know about vintage or old school.. But the M4 is definitely in the retro category, the very definition of retro is recent history. In the context of Stoner rifle evolution it makes sense to be retro. Whether or not this forum is intended for X/M4 photos is up to the mods.
    In the car context, a 25-year-old car qualifies for antique plates in many places. In the wine world, where the word 'vintage' originates, 'vintage' simply means the year a wine was bottled. In the electric guitar collector world, 'vintage' was already in use in the early 80's to denote guitars produced in the 50s and early 60s. Thus, a 1959 Les Paul Standard was considered 'vintage' before it had even turned 25.

    In general 'retro' suggests the style of things which are old but not really antique.

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    Last edited by creedal; 02-11-18 at 12:26.

  7. #367
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    XM4

    Is it an XM4 Clone or a A2? Or both! All Colt NOS Colt A2 Upper, Tegra Lower.

    Last edited by Core781; 02-11-18 at 12:54.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    Did your lower say Colt or FNH M4 on it?
    It was a Colt M4.
    Never forget every word you spoke when you took your oath of office.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRA556 View Post
    It was a Colt M4.
    Being a real M4 it's likely if your barrel had accuracy issues it was either shot out or defective from Colt. Or it was operator error. A M4 will shoot pretty tight at 100 yards unless the barrel has been shot out: which is always a possibility with a duty weapon. I shot a 300 second course with a M16 and swapped out with an M4A1 and scored higher with the M4A1 because it was easier to shoot and move between barricades and get back on target. I had to engage several hostage targets at distance (50 meters) and I was able to keep all the hits in the face of the threats in both scenarios. I'm fairly certain you will not notice much of a difference between a 14.5" barrel and a 18-20" until you hit 600 meters: assuming they are in good shape.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    Being a real M4 it's likely if your barrel had accuracy issues it was either shot out or defective from Colt. Or it was operator error.
    Can't be too much "operator error". I qualified every quarter that I was supposed to but after a while I also shot my personal 6920 with an Aimpoint PRO just to compare and the few times I did this I shot far better with the 6920 as far as the numerical score goes. I think my last qualification I fired in the 220(s) with the guvmint issue M4 and like 242 (out of 250) with my 6920. Of course I could only fire the last string in fast semi-auto with the 6920.

    Later, but before I retired, they started issuing the Colt SBR(s) and the scores stayed the same or got worse. This includes some former Marines in our ranks that always shot very well. Since I was retiring I never opted to be issued one of the SBR(s). They kept the Aimpoint H2(s) with the new SBR(s). I remember a couple of them stating they should drop the course to a max. of 50 yards and I figured they were getting frustrated but I don't know if the SBR(s) were new or not.

    Within the last year I've completed a retro XM177E2 with using the 11.5" BCM 1-7" twist barrel. I built this to commemorate my entire career. It's far from being broke in yet but it's doing pretty good with XM193(s) at 50 yards. Haven't take it out to 100 yards yet but I'm sure I will get there with it this year.
    Never forget every word you spoke when you took your oath of office.

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