#4 Buckshot...not so bad?

[WS6]

If you understand the mechanics that go on during the firing of a shotshell, deformation always occurs to the pellets to some degree. The hardness of the pellets can influence this... as can the weight of the pellet payload, the velocity, the shotcup/wad design and the buffering compound (if the load has any). #4 Buckshot is not usually included in LE type loads who have these innovations, so #4 Buckshot typically deforms quite a bit... especially at the velocities we are talking about... which is also typical.

If you have in fact posted gel that was calibrated properly, showing deeper penetration averaging around 12", please post it here again. I would like to see proof of that claim.

As for the question about a 20 grain pellet vs. a 20 grain 5.56 mm bullet... the pellet is round, the sliver would likely be sharp on at least one edge. So... the latter object should not penetrate as far as the pellet, but it is more liely to slice tissue. Not sure why you wanted to ask this, however.

BTW, you seem unsure as to whether or not your #4 Buckshot was hardened. I would guess it was not, but I don't know what specific load you had... do you?

My buckshot is 3% antimony, I have no idea what the tested load's data is. See post 1 for the gel-test.

[Glock17JHP]

Did you personally prepare the gelatin, and was it prepared per IWBA guidelines?

Did you personally do the testing?

Did you personally write the .PDF report?

Winchester Supreme XX 2 3/4" 12-pellet 00 Buck uses 2.5% antimony... and I know Winchester Ranger shot is harder than that, but I cannot specifically recall what % it is. I wouldn't consider 3% truly 'hardened' shot. Does the #4 Buckshot load you tested have a good shotcup design and buffering? If this is good data, it surprises me!!!

[WS6]

Did you personally prepare the gelatin, and was it prepared per IWBA guidelines?

Did you personally do the testing?

Did you personally write the .PDF report?

Winchester Supreme XX 2 3/4" 12-pellet 00 Buck uses 2.5% antimony... and I know Winchester Ranger shot is harder than that, but I cannot specifically recall what % it is. I wouldn't consider 3% truly 'hardened' shot. Does the #4 Buckshot load you tested have a good shotcup design and buffering? If this is good data, it surprises me!!!

I did not conduct the above test, or observe it.

[Shawn Dodson]

I could see no anomalies with Brassfetcher's calibration data that might explain the deeper penetration. Close examination of Brassfetcher's photos revealed very little deformation of the shot. Pellet deformation increases surface area and decreases sectional density, both of which would cause decreased penetration. I looked up MacPherson's Lead Alloy Sphere Penetration Depth data and discovered that MacPherson indicated that #4 Buckshot, propelled at 1250 fps, would theoretically penetrate about 14 inches in properly prepared and calibrated ordnance gelatin, provided the shot does not deform. Brassfetcher's results seem to validate MacPherson's theory. Whereas Fackler's wound profile appears to depict unhardened #4 buckshot, which were substantially deformed by acceleration and impact forces.

[DocGKR]

Shawn is right on the money--with adequately hardened, possibly plated shot and good buffering, a #4 buckshot load might work adequately. Of course, a properly designed, LE oriented reduced recoil #1 buckshot would also be very good.

[WS6]

Shawn is right on the money--with adequately hardened, possibly plated shot and good buffering, a #4 buckshot load might work adequately. Of course, a properly designed, LE oriented reduced recoil #1 buckshot would also be very good.

The buckshot that I have is very round (remington, I have noted buck from them is usually "nicer" than Federal or Winchester), and I belive it is 3% antimony (although--and this is VERY unscientific--when I dropped a weight on the pellets of Hornady (6%) and Remington (3%), they deformed about the same amount.). It has a granulated buffer that appears to be some type of polymer.

Does this sound adequate? It really seems to me that #4 buck is a superior choice IF! no barriers or things like leather jackets are going to be involved.

Still, 14" penetration in a handgun is "optimal", so I have a very hard time condeming buckshot that penetrates 14" as "sub-standard".

[Glock17JHP]

Doc,

Agree with your comment about #1 Buck... this was brought up years ago in the Wound Ballistics Review. I am amazed that the manufacturers didn't jump on that right away, but obviously LE didn't ask for it in great numbers, either. Bottom line: manufacturers look were the $$$ is unless there is a big enough demand for something new to be made.

WS6,

I have noticed that smaller pellet loads typically recoil more heavily. Unless lower pellet counts are used, the smaller pellet loads have less air space beween each pellet, so the result is a heavier payload... in my experiences. Lighter weight pellets seem to not do nearly as well against things that are not homogenous when compared to heavier pellets.

[WS6]

Doc,

Agree with your comment about #1 Buck... this was brought up years ago in the Wound Ballistics Review. I am amazed that the manufacturers didn't jump on that right away, but obviously LE didn't ask for it in great numbers, either. Bottom line: manufacturers look were the $$$ is unless there is a big enough demand for something new to be made.

WS6,

I have noticed that smaller pellet loads typically recoil more heavily. Unless lower pellet counts are used, the smaller pellet loads have less air space beween each pelet, so the result is a heavier payload... in my experiences. Lighter weight pellets seem to not do nearly as well against things that are not homogenous when compared to heavier pellets.

3" 41-pellet #4 buck sure can kick, but the 2.75" shells, I have yet to find one that really kicks. Then again, my M4S90 soaks up recoil wonderfully.

[m24shooter]

Doc,

Agree with your comment about #1 Buck... this was brought up years ago in the Wound Ballistics Review. I am amazed that the manufacturers didn't jump on that right away, but obviously LE didn't ask for it in great numbers, either. Bottom line: manufacturers look were the $$$ is unless there is a big enough demand for something new to be made.

FCC's position on this when asked about a FC tactical buck load for #1 is that there isn't enough interest (?!) in this for them to make it.

[KCabbage]

Behold gentlemen. This is the largest compilation of 12 gauge shotgun data i've ever come across, enjoy. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

-If linking data from another site isn't allowed I am quite alright with this post being deleted.