Low recoil

[BuckskinJoe]

I am curious. Are there any documented examples of shootings in which, after the shooting, a surviving civilian (good guy) or police officer complained about the effects of excessive recoil experienced during the gun fight? Are there any documented examples in which a survivor even as much as mentioned being aware of recoil during the shooting?

Perhaps, during post-fight debriefing, someone has mentioned being adversely affected by recoil, but I suspect effects of adrenaline, auditory exclusion, time dilation, and a host of other physiological and psychological effects would result in recoil not even being noticed and, therefore, not recalled.

[Weaver]

While I agree you'll not find too many reports of shooting survivors who complain about - or even remember - hard recoil, I wonder how many people who did not survive died because excessive recoil prevented them from properly re-engaging missed targets.

[Beat Trash]

While I agree you'll not find too many reports of shooting survivors who complain about - or even remember - hard recoil, I wonder how many people who did not survive died because excessive recoil prevented them from properly re-engaging missed targets.

This was an alleged issue for Law Enforcement back when it was the norm to train with 38 spec wad cutter ammunition, yet carry 38+P+ or 357 mag ammunition.

This is the stated reasoning why, at least in Ohio, OPOTA requires that Departmental training ammunition be of similar weight and velocity as the issued carry ammunition.

[BuckskinJoe]

While I agree you'll not find too many reports of shooting survivors who complain about - or even remember - hard recoil, I wonder how many people who did not survive died because excessive recoil prevented them from properly re-engaging missed targets.

Precisely my point.
If, indeed, excessive recoil prevented people involved in shootings from properly re-engaging missed targets, it is fair to assume that not all were killed. Taking it to the next step, can you cite any documented examples of such people complaining that excessive recoil prevented them from properly re-engaging missed targets?

[Todd.K]

Have you considered the possibility of somebody missing because of a flinch or lack of training due to an aversion to heavy recoil? Or how many roll without a shotgun because they can't/don't want to qualify?

I think you could find departments with more officers qualified or higher scores on the shotgun after a switch to low recoil.

[BuckskinJoe]

Have you considered the possibility of somebody missing because of a flinch or lack of training due to an aversion to heavy recoil? Or how many roll without a shotgun because they can't/don't want to qualify?

I think you could find departments with more officers qualified or higher scores on the shotgun after a switch to low recoil.

Yes, I am very aware of flinching; although I have never flinched off a shot (yet today, that is ) Flinching does not require much in the way of recoil. I have observed many "pre-ignition pushes" in people shooting .38 wadcutters and even .22 rimfire.

This thread is not about training, qualifying scores, or even flinching, per se.

I am asking for any documented cases of shootings where "good guy" survivors complained about one or more ill effects of recoil during the shooting. I am aware of none, but my breadth of knowledge is limited.

[Ed L.]

This thread is not about training, qualifying scores, or even flinching, per se.

But these are all part of the rationale for going with low recoil loads. Being able to train more comfortably, shoot better, and not develop a flinch are important.

I am asking for any documented cases of shootings where "good guy" survivors complained about one or more ill effects of recoil during the shooting. I am aware of none, but my breadth of knowledge is limited.

Whether or not the "good guy" survivor is aware of the recoil or not, the fact that some they can fire more rounds more rapidly than heavier recoiling rounds is a tactical advantage providing they are not sacrificing too much in terms of terminal effects.

I don't think I would opt for low recoil slugs over say a Brenneke Slug
if the gun was for defending against large dangerous game

[BuckskinJoe]

So far, people have commented about flinching, trainiing, comfort, qualifying scores, and dangerous game.

The question remains unanswered.

Can anyone cite cases in which:
1. A "good guy" (civilian or cop) was in a shooting,
2. Fired shots from some firearm (any firearm), and
3. After the event, made some sort of complaint about some sort of negative effect of recoil?

[Todd.K]

Recoil is not a subject that would come up very often after a shooting, based on my experience.

This does not prove that recoil does not matter in a gunfight.

[BuckskinJoe]

Recoil is not a subject that would come up very often after a shooting, based on my experience.

"not very often" indicates the subject has, indeed, come up in your experience. Are you able to document shootings in which a survivor did, indeed, mention ill effects of recoil he or she experienced in the shooting? A follow-on question is: what were the ill effects mentioned?

(As an aside, I, for one, am, in no way, "proving" or attempting to prove recoil is not a factor in shootings.)