Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 103

Thread: Which Twist Rate

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    1,857
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrhazzrd View Post
    Nope I'm not missing the point. I get all of that and I agree with it.

    What I don't understand is a blanket statement saying it is completely useless.

    I can with 100% certainty guarantee that I can kill a person with one bullet from a 45-55 GR FMJ 1x9 twist 16" AR15.


    If one limits their ammo to 75+ grain OTMs, then 1 in 9" approaches/reaches uselessness. It's a matter of perspective.

    If you are willing to limit your ammo to 69 grain and less, 1 in 9" is entirely adequate from a bullet stabilization perspective. The additional previously mentioned quality attributes (proper gas port diameters, proper throat/leade dimensions) still apply.

    Theoretically 1 in 8" would be equally acceptable. 1 in 8" is more of a match twist though so if you want to go this route you'd have to seek out a smith who would cut the chamber you specify (White Oak Precision, CLE, etc.). These smiths aren't into huge production, you're paying them to take their time and do the job right. And you're probably not going to get chrome lining, it would either either be a CM alloy or SS.
    Last edited by jmart; 06-08-10 at 15:46.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrhazzrd View Post
    No they are just claiming that a 1x9 is completely useless for shooting anything other than dirt. So that implies that it will not kill someone. I'm seeing an awful lot of biased opinions coming out. I'm not saying that 1x9 barrels aren't junk, apparently they are. But I would never make a claim saying that they are completely useless either.

    I remember not so long ago that the military used 1x11 twist rates in all of their barrels. I seem to remember them doing a lot of killing back then.


    For people who use 70 grain or heavier rounds for HD or competition they are useless for anything but dirt.


    Whats so hard to understand about that?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    256
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    For people who use 70 grain or heavier rounds for HD or competition they are useless for anything but dirt.


    Whats so hard to understand about that?
    Nevermind I'm done. I don't know how many times I have to say it. I know I can't shoot anything heavier than 69GR.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,377
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    But wouldn't you feel more comfortable shooting a 75 gr BTHP, designed for improved terminal effectiveness, as opposed to a much lighter jacketed round? Sure, it will do the job, but if you're using a sample size of 1 shot, you're gonna want the better bullet.
    Regarding your comment about the military using 1/11 barrels, keep in mind that the military was limited to a specific, light weight round (SS109) at the time. This was likely due to NATO compatibility and sourcing concerns. Add more shooters, burst and full auto, and different ballistic objectives into the mix, and your argument is akin to comparing two types of produce. Also witness the move, even in the military, to heavier ammunition, vis a vis Mk262 and Mk318 ammunition.
    See for more info on SS109 development and objectives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS109

    I agree with your point that useful and useless are terms that are dependent on the speaker's intended use. Having said that, as I've said before on this forum, look at your audience. More self defense/ammo versatility for high round count days/professional end users here.
    As opposed to the "here, hold my beer while I shoot this old toaster" crowd at other sites.
    BTW: for me, 1/9 is useless.
    The advice above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrhazzrd View Post
    Nevermind I'm done. I don't know how many times I have to say it. I know I can't shoot anything heavier than 69GR.


    You're not connecting the dots here.


    70GR and heavier ammo is the best for human stopping. Yes you can kill someone with a 45GR JHP varmint load. That is not the point.


    Lots of people, including me, rely on 70GR + ammo so for all of us a 1x9 is useless for anything but shoot dirt because we aren't shooting less than 70GR ammo for either competition or HD use. 1x9 may very well work for you for whatever loads you want to shoot. Go shoot it, and have fun.

    RE military shooting super slow twist and 55 GR ammo. There is a reason why M193 was dropped, and they went to a 1x7 barrel. Now there is a big push to go to 70GR + ammo like Mk318 for the USMC, and Army SF + some other units are using Mk262. It works better. No one has said your 55GR will not kill someone. You're taking a comment way out of context, and not viewing it from the perspective of who said it. Maybe they should have given a little further detail to explain it but you're just not listening to reason.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UT
    Posts
    357
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    You're not connecting the dots here.


    70GR and heavier ammo is the best for human stopping. Yes you can kill someone with a 45GR JHP varmint load. That is not the point.


    Lots of people, including me, rely on 70GR + ammo so for all of us a 1x9 is useless for anything but shoot dirt because we aren't shooting less than 70GR ammo for either competition or HD use. 1x9 may very well work for you for whatever loads you want to shoot. Go shoot it, and have fun.

    RE military shooting super slow twist and 55 GR ammo. There is a reason why M193 was dropped, and they went to a 1x7 barrel. Now there is a big push to go to 70GR + ammo like Mk318 for the USMC, and Army SF + some other units are using Mk262. It works better. No one has said your 55GR will not kill someone. You're taking a comment way out of context, and not viewing it from the perspective of who said it. Maybe they should have given a little further detail to explain it but you're just not listening to reason.
    Mk318 actually has a 62 gr bullet.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-0-ammunition/

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    490
    Feedback Score
    0
    I've owned two AR15's, one had a 1/8 twist and the one I have now is a 1/7 twist. The 1/8 twist gun was for Highpower matches to stabilize the 80 gr. SMK, the 1/7 twist gun is for self defense and I keep 75 gr. Tap on hand for it.

    The 1/9 twist is "limiting" in it's usefulness, so why limit yourself?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by B52U View Post


    You're right. I was thinking of the Mk294 which is similar to the Mk262.




    Last edited by Belmont31R; 06-08-10 at 16:38.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    48
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    If one limits their ammo to 75+ grain OTMs, then 1 in 9" approaches/reaches uselessness. It's a matter of perspective.

    If you are willing to limit your ammo to 69 grain and less, 1 in 9" is entirely adequate from a bullet stabilization perspective. The additional previously mentioned quality attributes (proper gas port diameters, proper throat/leade dimensions) still apply.

    Theoretically 1 in 8" would be equally acceptable. 1 in 8" is more of a match twist though so if you want to go this route you'd have to seek out a smith who would cut the chamber you specify (White Oak Precision, CLE, etc.). These smiths aren't into huge production, you're paying them to take their time and do the job right. And you're probably not going to get chrome lining, it would either either be a CM alloy or SS.
    http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=22&t=738872
    "PEACE is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading"

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    256
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    You're not connecting the dots here.


    70GR and heavier ammo is the best for human stopping. Yes you can kill someone with a 45GR JHP varmint load. That is not the point.


    Lots of people, including me, rely on 70GR + ammo so for all of us a 1x9 is useless for anything but shoot dirt because we aren't shooting less than 70GR ammo for either competition or HD use. 1x9 may very well work for you for whatever loads you want to shoot. Go shoot it, and have fun.

    RE military shooting super slow twist and 55 GR ammo. There is a reason why M193 was dropped, and they went to a 1x7 barrel. Now there is a big push to go to 70GR + ammo like Mk318 for the USMC, and Army SF + some other units are using Mk262. It works better. No one has said your 55GR will not kill someone. You're taking a comment way out of context, and not viewing it from the perspective of who said it. Maybe they should have given a little further detail to explain it but you're just not listening to reason.
    I connected the dots a long time ago. But one thing I did figure out here is this is more than a twist thing. This is a complete biased thing. This goes back to Chevy vs Ford. The Chevy guys will tell you that Fords are complete garbage, and the Ford guys will tell you Chevy's are complete garbage. And you will not get them to say otherwise. The sad thing though is it kind of ruins any credibility they ever had. Or at least in my eyes.

    I'm not arguing that 70+GR ammo is better than 65GR ammo. Anyone with half a brain could figure that out.

    What I am arguing though is that a 1:9 twist barrel is completely useless. To say it is completely useless; you might as well say its a toy and you would feel completely comfortable with a toddler playing with it while it is loaded. Hell if it's useless then it couldn't possibly hurt anyone right?

    You would never catch me driving a Yugo. Me personally I think they are butt ugly, and death traps. But to some people they get them from point a to point b. Therefore they are useful to them.

Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •