Civilians with CCW's.
I say, thanks, just made my job easier!
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Member
Civilians with CCW's.
I say, thanks, just made my job easier!
"Among the men who fought on Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
- Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, US Navy, 16 March 1945.
Late Senior Member
While I think there is definitely a regional "overprint" on all of this (a Boston or NYC LEO is likely to have a different perspective than one in a more permissive/rural/progressive area), there is a definite schism of thought between management and labor on this issue. Administrators and Chiefs tend to take a dim view toward anyone among the general populace having the right to arm themselves, whereas the rank and file tend to have more connections to the shooting public, and therefore, more confidence and familiarity with those who might seek to carrry.
As a former LEO, I guess the real issue is/was who we're talking about. A fairly clean cut dude that seems to have his head screwed on straight and a certain seriousness about his approach to arms is always going to pass muster. Present yourself as anything too far from the baseline (i.e. unkempt, very young, a bit too preoccupied with trying to be "cool"/showoff), and you're going to instill less confidence. Quite honestly, unless you are a familiar face, or have trained with some of your local officers out on the range, the base assumption is that your competence MAY be quite high, but it is always worth questioning, too.
People that like to carry guns tend to become police officers, (which is not to say that most cops are really that into firearms); among those that don't, the better trained you are, and the more capably you are able to articulate your reasons for exercising those CCW rights, the more likely you are to find an ally in blue.
Chief
Member
Okay, here’s some reality for my part of the world. There are roughly 625 square miles in my county. There is one sheriff and four deputies. There are five full time and one part time police officers divided between four townships.
If you’re adding them correctly there are eleven officers, but they’re not all on duty. There might be five officers on duty at the same time, but being alone isn’t unusual for a population above 7000.
Five of those officers live in the northeast corner of the county. If I am dressed when you call I can get to the opposite corner of the county in twenty minutes to a half hour at 100+ MPH without traffic.
Bottom line up front, you had better not believe that “protect and serve” means that I’ll be there defending you. I cannot possibly be where you are having a life-threatening situation in time to help save you. So whose responsibility is it to save you? Exactly, I’ll be there as soon as possible to do the investigation, don’t make it your death investigation and make damn sure you really were in danger.
Prepare for the unthinkable, as though it was inevitable.
Member
Most are bad shots........ I think half. You don't have to be a great target shooter, you have to be a "good enough" combat shooter. There is a big difference. Part of that difference is looking through your sights at a human target that moves and reacts to your aggressive actions. For those of you that have never went force on force with some simunitions or even airsoft, you need to find some!!! Yes, I did say airsoft. More on that in a different thread.
Just like any job there are those that are there just for the paycheck. Some have the nothing will ever happen mentality, and some do not. The LEOs that have it see no reason to become proficient in any form of defending themselves.
Back on topic, I am all for CCW holders. Most of my family have them, including my wife. She has it for a reason, that being I am not constantly around her. She wants to be able to defend herself and out kids from the miscreants of society. She and I feel that if you have the equipment that could possibly save your family member or yourself from a horrible event (burglary, rape, robbery, or murder), then it would be irresponsible not to have it on hand.
I do wish that CCW holders would do ONE THING. This topic ussually brings up the.....it's my right to carry and I don't have to tell anybody!!! That one thing is to inform the LEO that pulls you over that you are carrying concealed. This would lead to ensuring that there are no misconceptions that the lawful CCW holder is a bad guy.
We have already had many a thread on this and other boards reference the same thing. I just don't want any misunderstandings.
I also feel the whole NFA thing is a bunch of BS as well, especially that no more machine guns can be made after 1986. This means that only the rich or those that have a spare 5 digits to spare get to play.
Be safe and stay vertical,
G
I
Member
I always tell the police officer that I am carrying or if I have a weapon in the car. I got pulled over in Alabama and I could not remember the rules of CCW in Alabama so in Meridian, MS I put my Glock 26 in my glove compartment. When the gentlemen asked for my registration I told him i have a handgun in my glove compartment and I did not want to startle him. He said ok and asked to see it. I droped the magazine and remoed the one in the chamber and handed it to the officer. Then we got into the discussion of Glocks and 1911s. I did not get a ticket for the 8 miles per hour I was speading but he did escort me to the edge of his area at a fast 85 mph pace.
Site Sponsor
Most of the officers I have interacted with support the idea of ordinary citizens being issued permits.
A fair number I have trained with would like to see a training requirement for the issuance of a permit.
I am opposed to any such measure, but I understand where they are coming from. The idea of armed untrained individuals running around out there can be scary.
The numbers, however, show that those untrained ordinary citizens seem to be able to refrain from shooting the wrong people.
Most cops I have trained with, even the fairly anti-gun ones, don't mind it if *I* own "assault" weapons or have a concealed carry permit, because of the training they know I have done.
I always make it a point to tell them that I was no more likely to harm them or interfere with their duties before I had all the training than I am now.
Member
That's good to hear. Perhaps things have changed significantly since I moved away (I was there from 87-91). Most of my hundreds of family members and relatives live in Vallejo now, but I have no idea how any of them feel about guns or RKBA issues.Originally Posted by Code3Patriot
Curious ... if you feel comfortable answering ... let's say you pull someone over from out of state (just for a minor traffic infraction) and they seem to be okay otherwise. If you happen to learn they have a loaded gun in the car, what sort of discretion do you have to ignore it?
What if you see a tourist at Jack London Village who is "printing" a little under his shirt?
This is all academic curiosity for me, as I am not returning to California for any reason (unless the laws changes dramatically).
I'm not sure anyone would even notice after a few days!
Member
A vast majority of the LEO's I've talked to are Pro-CCW and have a very positive attitude about it. There are a few who do not like it for illogical reasons.
An interesting thing I found was that most of the ones who didn't want civilians to be armed were the younger, less expreienced LEO's. Hopefully as the gain experience they will change their minds...
Member
Hey, you have to love them. I find it amusing when younger officers and I approach a house together to talk with the victim and they have one hand on their handgun and the other on their OC. They absolutely freak out when I shake someone’s hand and introduce myself at the door. Come on, I want my officers to be safe, but treating citizens as citizens and not criminals only makes sense. Now there are times when announcing your presence seconds before you flatten the door is the right thing to do, but its not normally at the victim’s house.
Prepare for the unthinkable, as though it was inevitable.
Member
Discretion is just that... discretion. And I'll leave it at that.That's good to hear. Perhaps things have changed significantly since I moved away (I was there from 87-91). Most of my hundreds of family members and relatives live in Vallejo now, but I have no idea how any of them feel about guns or RKBA issues.
Curious ... if you feel comfortable answering ... let's say you pull someone over from out of state (just for a minor traffic infraction) and they seem to be okay otherwise. If you happen to learn they have a loaded gun in the car, what sort of discretion do you have to ignore it?
What if you see a tourist at Jack London Village who is "printing" a little under his shirt?
This is all academic curiosity for me, as I am not returning to California for any reason (unless the laws changes dramatically).
I'm not sure anyone would even notice after a few days!
Jack London Square is mere blocks away from OPD headquarters, a county courthouse and federal buildings. If I see someone printing I'm going to assume it's either a cop (there are a zillion local cops from 60 plus departments in addition to tons of feds in the bay area), a judge, DA, or someone connected who got a permit. I wouldn't blink an eye or attempt to contact the person unless their behavior was somehow suspicious or caused me concern. But, thats just me becuase my blood pressure doesn't squirt when I find out a non LEO is carrying. I know a few guys who would clear all radio traffic, stop the person at gunpoint, and then conduct an on scene interrogation that would make Jack Bauer blush.
The laws will never change here, they continue get a little worse every few years thanks to our moronic state legislature.
Second place earns a body bag.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks