View Poll Results: Spike's or BCM?

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  • Spike's

    115 22.59%
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    346 67.98%
  • Other

    48 9.43%
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Thread: Official Spikes questions/comments thread (new Spikes posts go here)

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I just watched your video. Very well put together (video quality and such). It however looked like Spikes Tactical sponored commercial on Guns and Ammo TV. One suggestion, I would point out that you got to keep the weapon, upper and whatever else they gave you.

    I understand that you say you weren't paid, but actually you were. You were paid well over $800 dollars. IMHO, this is not a good idea and is why no one ever believes gun magazine writers.

    I wonder if the gun did not run if Spikes would have gotten all the nice pics, video, links to their website, phone number posted, talk about their CS and how great the owner was.

    I am not going to get into your integrity or any of that other BS (as I don't know you). If you say you gave it a fair and honest review, then you did.

    As far as the review goes, I think it was really lacking. You basically told the viewer to go to the Spikes website for the hard facts. About the only think you covered was that they had a 5.56 NATO chamber. My question to you is, how do you know? Did you check it with a 5.56 NATO gauge or did you just take their word for it?

    IMHO, if you are going to do a review, dive into the technical specs and verify what materials are being used, ask to see the certs AND run as many rounds through the gun as possible (which you did).

    I am not sure why the gun wasn't shot with lubrication. AR's burn oil and require it to run well. Not lubing was just foolish and if you had a problem, you wouldn't know whether to blame it on a poor quality part or a stupid user trick.

    The reason to go into the specs on guns (and require physical proof of claims) is because I probably could have gotten a BM or Oly AR to run 2300 rounds. So someone would have saw that and just thought to themself that those guns were equal to a Colt or BCM and that just isn't even remotely true.

    Good luck with your reviews and look forward to watching more of them.


    C4
    Thanks for the less abrasive recommendations.

    Despite his delivery, I think ROBS is right about stating it up front what was given, etc. Truth be told, it honestly never crossed my mind. Being someone who attempts to maintain the highest level of integrity, I naively never considered it to be an issue and obviously should have factored that skepticism into the equation.

    Rookie mistake...will not happen again.

    Furthermore, this was my very first attempt at doing a video. I admit it does have a commercial feel to it. My logic at the time for not getting into the spec was that most of the information is available via their website. And yes, i take their word for it unless I have reason to believe they are lying. Obviously, you currently have some issue with Spike's claim, but i do not, and I hope that will all be cleared up shortly. But again, that was not the scope or angle of this review.

    Also, I was trying to keep it relatively short, and it was nearing 10 minutes without going into the 1 and 0 of it all. i did not want to do a 45 minute dissection of the rifle. Those kinds of things are better left to guys like you and Rob who have more experience.

    I was going for more of an introduction of the rifle to the average end user--not Devgroup, CAG, RECON, or SEAL6. That being the goal, there was not the time built in for the technical specifics. I wanted more focus on the use and how it ran during the class.

    That is also where the logic comes in with the oil thing. Like I said, I am not looking for a subMOA rifle performance out of this gun. I am looking for it to function reliably under slightly worse than realistic conditions that the non military combatant will see. The video was geared toward the civilian user or LEO who will in reality probably never fire 1k rounds through the gun unless they are a member here. Also, i was drawing on my experiences during Katrina as a realistic benchmark of sorts for one expression of durability. One expression--not all encompassing. I was not trying to recreate the Army trials.

    I am pretty sure most military guys are not looking at reviews to get info on rifles, again seeing as how many have little choice in what they carry anyway.

    It is obvious that there are those here who are not very supportive of Spike's for their own reasons; however, that is no reason to cast a shadow on me.

    I got the gun (for free), ran the shit out the gun, and reported the results. if that bitch would have choked every third round, or blew like the piston and Colt systems we have seen, then that would have made for one hell of a review.

    However something tells me if that was the case, the same people who are alluding that I am being dishonest would not really care at that point if I got it for free or not.


    lastly guys, this was my first video that was released a little before it was ready. No need to punch a brother in the teeth on round one. LOL

    Sorry the gun ran. i am a tell it like it is guy, and if it had choked, we would be seeing some completely different pictures. LOL

  2. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolacopusmc View Post
    Yeah, this "character thing". OK What the hell was I thinking? Funny how you dismiss that which you so vehemently call into question without knowing me or watching the video even.

    Sorry I did not follow ROBS' formula for the perfect first try at a video review. Obviously you set the standard for all to follow.

    1) Before you show your ignorance, actually watch the video.
    2) Again, my blood type is O+, I guess I should have listed that also.
    3) Nothing was hidden, as evidence in my immediate disclosure here when the video was basically released before it was intended.
    4) Nothing was hidden

    BTW boss, "us" is the people who ran the rifle and my friend who assisted me hosting the class and with the review.

    However, despite your complete lack of couth, I see now Jedi master that you are correct.

    In the future, i will clearly state exactly what was paid for what I am reviewing.

    Not to keep pinging what Rob said about stating you received the rifle for free, but you pushed pretty hard in this thread for Spikes. It would be wise when you are promoting a certain brand to state that you got something for free from the manufacturer.

    When you promote a manufacturer and don't state that you got one for free and then it comes out later, it usually never turns out well (FYI).

    Just sayin...


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 06-17-10 at 22:23.

  3. #1103
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    rob and nola:

    Six minutes after I tell you both to drop it and you both post more on the same thing???


    Knock off all the bullshit. Can I make it any clearer?
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 06-17-10 at 22:32.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    rob and nola:

    Six minutes after I tell you both to drop it and you both post more on the same thing???


    Knock off all the bullshit. Can I make it any clearer?
    SORRY, I MISSED IT. I WAS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN A DISCUSSION.

    MSG RECEIVED.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 06-17-10 at 22:33.

  5. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Not to keep pinging what Rob said about stating you received the rifle for free, but you pushed pretty hard in this thread for Spikes. It would be wise when you are promoting a certain brand to state that you got something for free from the manufacturer.

    When you promote a manufacturer and don't state that you got one for free and then it comes out later, it usually never turns out well (FYI).

    Just sayin...


    C4
    Fair enough, and good advice, but for the record, i was never "pushing" for Spike's I was asking questions. However, many here, you included are pushing against Spike's. Even reading back, i am not sure where this (as I perceive it) bad taste for Spike's comes from.

    Is anyone saying they are "bad" rifles?

    I definitely support Spike's, because my experience with them in quality and customer service has been good. Same thing with Raven Concealment (I PAID FOR EVERYTHING IN THAT REVIEW BTW ) MPro 7 lubrication, and Revision Eyewear.

  6. #1106
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolacopusmc View Post
    SORRY, I MISSED IT. I WAS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN A DISCUSSION.

    MSG RECEIVED.

    I think you have received far more attention than you deserve.
    "Facit Omina Voluntas = The Will Decides" - Army Chief


  7. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolacopusmc View Post
    Thanks for the less abrasive recommendations.
    Oh I am MUUUCH more user friendly than Rob. Ok, not really (just ask Tom).

    Despite his delivery, I think ROBS is right about stating it up front what was given, etc. Truth be told, it honestly never crossed my mind. Being someone who attempts to maintain the highest level of integrity, I naively never considered it to be an issue and obviously should have factored that skepticism into the equation.

    Rookie mistake...will not happen again.
    When we look at ourselves, we know that we are telling the truth. However, you have to think of it from an outsider looking in. Good lessoned learned for you and will aid you in future reviews. Like when I tell people that I personally have no issue with Spikes Tactical, they don't believe me and believe I have an agenda (except to get the truth).

    Furthermore, this was my very first attempt at doing a video. I admit it does have a commercial feel to it. My logic at the time for not getting into the spec was that most of the information is available via their website. And yes, i take their word for it unless I have reason to believe they are lying. Obviously, you currently have some issue with Spike's claim, but i do not, and I hope that will all be cleared up shortly. But again, that was not the scope or angle of this review.
    If the user wanted to go to their website, they would. They are coming to YOU for the info so give it to them.

    As someone that has worked in this industry for many years, I will tell you to trust NO ONE. You don't know Tom from Adam. Trust but verfiy.

    Also, I was trying to keep it relatively short, and it was nearing 10 minutes without going into the 1 and 0 of it all. i did not want to do a 45 minute dissection of the rifle. Those kinds of things are better left to guys like you and Rob who have more experience.
    Understand. I did get a little bored halfway through, but I am a Technical Spec guy and pointing to the chamber and FSB just doesn't do it for me. I want to see a pic of barrel certs, proof load certs, MPI, etc.

    I was going for more of an introduction of the rifle to the average end user--not Devgroup, CAG, RECON, or SEAL6. That being the goal, there was not the time built in for the technical specifics. I wanted more focus on the use and how it ran during the class.
    The average consumer is MUCH more technical than they were 10yrs ago. They know what the mil-spec barrel steel is, they know about HPT and MPI and that manufacturers lie about specs all the time.

    Stating that the gun ran in class was a good idea and something that I would look for (vs telling me that it "ran great" off a bench) so good on that part.

    That is also where the logic comes in with the oil thing. Like I said, I am not looking for a subMOA rifle performance out of this gun. I am looking for it to function reliably under slightly worse than realistic conditions that the non military combatant will see. The video was geared toward the civilian user or LEO who will in reality probably never fire 1k rounds through the gun unless they are a member here. Also, i was drawing on my experiences during Katrina as a realistic benchmark of sorts for one expression of durability. One expression--not all encompassing. I was not trying to recreate the Army trials.
    What if the gun didn't run because it wasn't lubed? What would you have done then with your review? Understand what I am saying? You are setting yourself up for failure when you do that kind of stuff.

    If you would have posted that the Spike gun didn't run and then later found out that you did not lube it, I would have held you accountable for being stupid (not Spikes). Something to consider.

    I am pretty sure most military guys are not looking at reviews to get info on rifles, again seeing as how many have little choice in what they carry anyway.
    You must have never been in the Military. Most folks in the Military (even ones that carry a rifle for their job) know little to nothing about guns. Not everyone in the Military is a "gun guy."

    It is obvious that there are those here who are not very supportive of Spike's for their own reasons; however, that is no reason to cast a shadow on me.
    I am sure this is true. They also have a metric truck load of fanboys that make up for the difference though. They all seem to live in FL too. Strange.

    I got the gun (for free), ran the shit out the gun, and reported the results. if that bitch would have choked every third round, or blew like the piston and Colt systems we have seen, then that would have made for one hell of a review.

    However something tells me if that was the case, the same people who are alluding that I am being dishonest would not really care at that point if I got it for free or not.


    lastly guys, this was my first video that was released a little before it was ready. No need to punch a brother in the teeth on round one. LOL

    Sorry the gun ran. i am a tell it like it is guy, and if it had choked, we would be seeing some completely different pictures. LOL
    Roger that. I think you will find that when a manufacturer sends you something for free and they do not get a glowing review, you are most likely never going to see anything from them again and might even get a nasty e-mail/phone call. This is of course not true with all manufacturers, but more times than not, that is the way it works (FYI).

    Good luck on your future reviews.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 06-17-10 at 22:43.

  8. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Oh I am MUUUCH more user friendly than Rob. Ok, not really (just ask Tom).



    When we look at ourselves, we know that we are telling the truth. However, you have to think of it from an outsider looking in. Good lessoned learned for you and will aid you in future reviews. Like when I tell people that I personally have no issue with Spikes Tactical, they don't believe me and believe I have an agenda (except to get the truth).



    If the user wanted to go to their website, they would. They are coming to YOU for the info so give it to them.

    As someone that has worked in this industry for many years, I will tell you to trust NO ONE. You don't know Tom from Adam. Trust but verfiy.



    Understand. I did get a little bored halfway through, but I am a Technical Spec guy and pointing to the chamber and FSB just doesn't do it for me. I want to see a pic of barrel certs, proof load certs, MPI, etc.



    The average consumer is MUCH more technical than they were 10yrs ago. They know what the mil-spec barrel steel is, they know about HPT and MPI and that manufacturers lie about specs all the time.

    Stating that the gun ran in class was a good idea and something that I would look for (vs telling me that it "ran great" off a bench) so good on that part.



    What if the gun didn't run because it wasn't lubed? What would you have done then with your review? Understand what I am saying? You are setting yourself up for failure when you do that kind of stuff.

    Good point. i definitely see what you are saying. Too many variables in the experiment so to speak. What would you say to lubing it out the box, but not cleaning it for the duration of the course?

    If you would have posted that the Spike gun didn't run and then later found out that you did not lube it, I would have held you accountable for being stupid (not Spikes). Something to consider.



    You must have never been in the Military. Most folks in the Military (even ones that carry a rifle for their job) know little to nothing about guns. Not everyone in the Military is a "gun guy."

    LOL. Actually I was a Marine for 11 years, shot on rifle and pistol team (a little) and was a PMI.

    I am sure this is true. They also have a metric truck load of fanboys that make up for the difference though. They all seem to live in FL too. Strange.



    Roger that. I think you will find that when a manufacturer sends you something for free and they do not get a glowing review, you are most likely never going to see anything from them again and might even get a nasty e-mail/phone call. This is of course not true with all manufacturers, but more times than not, that is the way it works (FYI).

    Good luck on your future reviews.


    C4
    I hear you on the negative reviews, but like I said, i am very upfront about that with them before I accept the project. if they choose to get all butthurt because their shit don't run...oh well. LOL.

    Thanks for the advice though.

  9. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolacopusmc View Post
    Fair enough, and good advice, but for the record, i was never "pushing" for Spike's I was asking questions. However, many here, you included are pushing against Spike's. Even reading back, i am not sure where this (as I perceive it) bad taste for Spike's comes from.

    Is anyone saying they are "bad" rifles?

    I definitely support Spike's, because my experience with them in quality and customer service has been good. Same thing with Raven Concealment (I PAID FOR EVERYTHING IN THAT REVIEW BTW ) MPro 7 lubrication, and Revision Eyewear.


    Hey great, I am just asking questions about Spikes as well.

    I don't know that anyone doesn't like Spikes. They just want them to back up what they are posting. Pretty simple I think.

    C4

  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolacopusmc View Post
    I hear you on the negative reviews, but like I said, i am very upfront about that with them before I accept the project. if they choose to get all butthurt because their shit don't run...oh well. LOL.

    Thanks for the advice though.
    I would clean the gun when you got it and then lube it. Not cleaning it after that wouldn't bother me.

    The manufacturer has to know that they could get a negative review out of you and accept it.


    C4

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