View Poll Results: Spike's or BCM?

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  • Spike's

    115 22.59%
  • BCM

    346 67.98%
  • Other

    48 9.43%
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Thread: Official Spikes questions/comments thread (new Spikes posts go here)

  1. #1311
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    Good point and one that has been made in this thread by Rob_s as well. The term mil-spec is certainly overused. Often, a company will use it to refer to one component of a rifle like a receiver extension or chrome lining in the barrel, bolt carrier or gas key, and then infer that it applys to the whole gun. The interesting thing is that when called out on it, most typically backtrack and clarify the facts, whether that is relative to barrel steel, testing processes or whatever may apply to that particular manufacturer. "Mil-spec" has become an abused buzzword used to sell guns and make customers feel like they are getting a superior weapon. However, very few of them go to the trouble to outline specifically what makes their gun mil-spec. I hate to use BCM as an example again because this is not a BCM vs. Spikes issue, but they are an example of how to do things right and they do a good job of communicating to the buyer exactly what they do to make their guns follow the TDP.
    There is a pretty good article on this concept in the September issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement. Just sayin'

  2. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    There is a pretty good article on this concept in the September issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement. Just sayin'
    There sure is & I've already read it. Good work Rob, it's nice to see the shooting community educated instead of brainwashed through a gun magazine. I refused to buy the latest issue of "Book of the AR15". It was loaded with nothing but advertising articles and very little substance.

  3. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozzle13 View Post
    Also having banned Spike's from the site, and then starting a bashing thread, kind of seems a little childish. If you want answers, why the ban. I do agree since Tom stated he would post the certs then he should, and should have already.
    Tom seems like a passionate guy, and probably a very good asset to the 2A community.

    He unequivocally stated he didn't want an account here, and that when he sees Grant, it would "be on", or something to that effect. We obliged his wishes in regards to his account here. What he does when he sees Grant is hopefully talk it over like mature adults versus school yard antics.

    This thread is not a bash Spikes Tactical thread, what it is was a compilation of the "10 a minute" lovefest posts regarding Spikes Tactical. We weren't going to have 50 open topics about one vendor saying all the same thing, "My Spikes upper looks so rad, and when I shoot it, I'll tell you how more rad it is then right now...."

    I wish Spikes Tactical all the luck in the world, and I hope they continue to evolve their product line, and make the 2A community a better place for it.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  4. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    re: the "fanboyism" and "anit-fanboyism" comments...

    What has been conveyed to me behind the scenes by many consumers is that they object to the whole testosterone, spider, "shoot 'em in the face" marketing strategy and corporate image. The concern there is twofold. One aspect is that many people don't want to be, or professionally can't be, associated with that kind of image for one reason or another. The other is that the logical extension is that if the company is so focused on image how focused can they be on product? For every guy that says "why do you care, it's just a logo?" is another guy saying "well then why did the company have to pick such a stupid/obnoxious/lame/gay logo?" If, in fact, a company is equally concerned with marketing and image independent of the product then at what point does that marketing and image start to take a toll on the product?

    Spike's, frankly, doesn't give a damn because they have a huge customer base that eats this shit up, and buys not only the guns but the patches, stickers, and t-shirts. But there is a backlash to this. Look at any company that has expanded their marketing to an image or a lifestyle beyond simply that of the product. Whether you take the AAC or Harley approach and actually try to manufacture a sub-set of a lifestyle or whether you take the Spike's approach and market to it, there are downsides and backlashes. For the manufacturer the good news is that those that buy into it will be RABID fans. You don't even have to do anything because the product has become so ingrained into the person's being that they will defend it as if you kicked one of their kids. But the people that don't like the image to begin with are only going to be further pushed away.
    You bring up a good point and one that I have thought about personally, but was hesitant to post about. While Spikes appears to be making an attempt to legitimize their brand through product improvements, their early days were clearly marketed to the mall ninjas of the AR market (or maybe just the lowest common denominator of a particular web-based customer group). That market segment LOVES Spikes and they will remain a large part of the company's revenue stream. The tradeoff is that not everyone likes the persona and many prefer a more professional, no nonsense approach. Whether they like they like it or not, the name Spikes now creates an emotional response. For some folks, it is a positive response, for others... not so much. When you add to that the fact that they doubled lower prices immediately after the election and now Tom's promises to produce documentation, then refusing to do so, many folks just don't trust them. The result is that their customer base is comprised primarily of rabid internet-based fans and locals. Then there are the few guys like 87GN and Nolacop, who understand exactly what they are getting, a reliable & affordable gun that is not quite a Colt equivalent, but better than most other options out there in the commercial AR market. I would bet that the few customers like them really don't care one way or the other about the company's logo, persona and all of the other peripheral BS.
    Last edited by mtdawg169; 08-13-10 at 12:08.

  5. #1315
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    Rob, I agree with you on the chart. I believe a chart is really the only logical way to decide between two or more different things. I've use a chart to prove points before as well. About 4yrs ago while on jury duty I used the chart method to explain why this gangbanger needed to spend some time with the state. This lady was admittedly against it until I wrote it all out on the chalk board. Judge even thanked us on the decision, cause while out on bail, dude killed someone, and was truly a miscreant.

    I do agree about the lifestyle award also. Someone just posted their spike's tattoo, on TOS. Waaaay overboard. I believe the "Operator" lifestyle is a little overboard too. Most of the Operators I grew up with, I grew up in Va Beach, you would never here shit. Which I find with most people, that if you are truly professional, you don't have to announce it to anyone.

    I remember going to the sneak peak to "Navy SEAL", at Pembroke Mall. I was like 12 or so. The only way to tell the real Operators, was that they were all wearing sandals, and standing self assuredly. The guys in kill'em all shirts trying to cut line claiming they where the "Operators" just out of Marine Boot. The SEALS just snickered. So you see they where fanboys to, just the anti. Not the SEALS the young Marines. We're operators, and if it isn't this, this, or this it ain't shit.

    A lot of the real deal operator stores allow this image to occur as well. Why? Because if they didn't there sales base would be dramatically lower.

    I'm rambling, but I hope you see my point.

  6. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Tom seems like a passionate guy, and probably a very good asset to the 2A community.
    What is the 2A community?

    He unequivocally stated he didn't want an account here,...
    That explains alot. I was wondering what he might have said on this sight to result in his being banned. I didn't realize until I went over to TOS that he had clearly disavowed M4C.

    and that when he sees Grant, it would "be on", or something to that effect. We obliged his wishes in regards to his account here. What he does when he sees Grant is hopefully talk it over like mature adults versus school yard antics.
    I saw this over on TOS as well. Making threats to do someone harm or shut down their business, either in person or over the internet is complete BS and for me, told me all I ever needed to know about Tom Miller and Spikes Tactical. I'm not saying that anyone else should feel this way or trying to bash Spikes, just sharing my personal opinion, which is worth exactly $.02.

    This thread is not a bash Spikes Tactical thread, what it is was a compilation of the "10 a minute" lovefest posts regarding Spikes Tactical. We weren't going to have 50 open topics about one vendor saying all the same thing, "My Spikes upper looks so rad, and when I shoot it, I'll tell you how more rad it is then right now...."
    I noticed the sudden influx of Spike's threads a few months ago. It seemed to coincide with a large influx of new members and "M4 feedramp" / "hey check out my new pmags that I bought for the rifle I don't have yet" type of threads. I'm personally glad to see that M4C Mods and Members have worked to reduce the noise level around here.

  7. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Tom seems like a passionate guy, and probably a very good asset to the 2A community.

    He unequivocally stated he didn't want an account here, and that when he sees Grant, it would "be on", or something to that effect. We obliged his wishes in regards to his account here. What he does when he sees Grant is hopefully talk it over like mature adults versus school yard antics.

    This thread is not a bash Spikes Tactical thread, what it is was a compilation of the "10 a minute" lovefest posts regarding Spikes Tactical. We weren't going to have 50 open topics about one vendor saying all the same thing, "My Spikes upper looks so rad, and when I shoot it, I'll tell you how more rad it is then right now...."

    I wish Spikes Tactical all the luck in the world, and I hope they continue to evolve their product line, and make the 2A community a better place for it.
    Tom and I have exchanged several e-mails and they have all been professional and friendly.


    C4

  8. #1318
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    Spikes has some nice looking stuff and I own 3 of their lowers but no complete rifles. Regarding the spider, if guys don't like it or their department frowns on such things, no problem. There are manufacturers with more bland logos.

    It seems that at present, Spikes is ahead of Oly, DPMS, Model 1 Sales, Bushmaster, Doublestar, Rock River, etc... but still not to the top of the heap. Personally I am happy to see Spikes enjoy continued and growing success and I hope they will keep climbing the hill and get their guns right to the top in the future. At present if I were not able to afford a Noveske, DD, BCM, LMT, Colt, complete rifle I would surely take a look at Spikes and compare price to value with the other makers.

  9. #1319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    There is a new write up of the Spike's carbine in the latest SWAT magazine. What I found very curious is that the author made it a point to mention that their barrels and bolts were MPI tested, although no mention of HP.
    I'd like to know if he was actually presented with proof or did they just tell him.
    And as mentioned before MPI w/o HP serves no purpose at all.
    I'm surprised this is the only mention of the SWAT article in this thread. There weren't too many technical specs listed in that article, other than the MPI mentioned above and the author throwing around "mil-spec" a few times. I liked how the author says at SWAT, they review hard and keep it real. Then he bashes the A2 grip, which is something a lot of lowers probably come with (his only complaint, not that I expected him to have a lot considering it ran fine when he tested it out).

    Full disclosure: I do have a Spikes lower
    Last edited by rudy99; 08-16-10 at 16:54.
    I've got a bunch of survival guides on my Kindle, so I'm ready for an EMP.

  10. #1320
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    Spikes impressions

    Ok, so first off, I do own Spikes Tactical products. I was recently in FL and I stopped by their shop, and I was impressed with their generosity. They were very polite and gave me probably 25 stickers, 2 t shirts, and maybe 10 patches.

    With that being said, I have always been a big fan of Spikes. Although, as others have posted here earlier, I have sometimes been slightly put off by some of the "persona" that surrounds them. For instance, the lowers that they sell with the THUG prefix. I sort of wonder how that really helps the way that people look at gun owners, and specifically owners of black rifles. However, I really think that a lot of that "thug persona" has been toned down and I am not really so concerned with it anymore. Most of the stuff they do now is no different than what most people in the mil or in LE would do. A lot of their patches are very similar designs to what some units in the mil would use, so Im not so concerned now.

    I did see someone mention that some LE units may be put off by their logo and persona, but as far as their logo is concerned, I dont really think it is overtly aggressive or negative in any way. Now, if their logo was the punisher symbol...that would be another story. Also, I can tell you that one of my spikes lowers has the punisher symbol on it, and another one has the Infidel engraving on it. I will tell you right now that I WILL NOT grab those particular rifles for home defense. The last thing I want is to possibly go in front of a jury for a home defense shooting with a rifle that has the punisher on it. One of my other Spikes (non engraved) rifles, or a pistol will be my go to in that case.

    ok, so now that Ive talked about that, lets get on to the dick measuring that has been going on. First, it was probably a dick move to question their integrity by calling them out and saying that someone didnt believe that they were truly doing all the tests that they say they are. HOWEVER, once that was done, Tom picked up the gauntlet and took it a step further by saying that he would PROVE it by posting his certs. That was a a couple months back now and has yet to be done. So at this point I am disapointed that they have not been provided. I cant say that it would prevent me from getting any Spikes products in the future, because it wont. BUT it used to be that Spikes was my go to guy when it came to black rifles. Bravo has always been a contender, but I have never really had any reason to go Bravo over Spikes. Now I may just give Bravo a shot the next time I need an upper or another rifle. However, I may also call Spikes and ask them about their process and ask them to verify the testing that they do by providing me with a copy when the rifle/upper is shipped. I will tell you this though, if it were ever proven that Spikes misrepresented their products, I would not do business with them again, though I do not think that is the case. For now I will remain loyal to Spikes, but I will broaden my horizons at the same time.

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