Official Spikes questions/comments thread (new Spikes posts go here)

[TOrrock]

Justin, we didn't have people joining M4 specifically to shill BCM, we did with Spikes, that's what started this whole mess and why you might see a slightly different attitude.

You've said it yourself, Spikes marketed themselves to a very different consumer than those that regularly post here on M4C. We had a large influx of new members who were literally here only to shill Spikes, whether it was orchestrated by Spikes or not, I don't know.

What I do know is that we don't take kindly to that here, so to help manage the influx, we consolidated the posts and threads into this one.

You should probably hold off on comments about my tolerance for hypocrisy and criticism until you've shared a range or a beer with me.

[justin_247]

You should probably hold off on comments about my tolerance for hypocrisy and criticism until you've shared a range or a beer with me.

Careful... I may well take you up on this offer. It sounds like a good time!

[Robb Jensen]

1. This site would not allow Spike's to become a paying member, so this point is completely irrelevant.

2. I assume this site is now going to consolidate all of the BCM 14.5" mid-length upper threads? Every day there's a new "range report" or a new "question" thread about them. If not, this point is irrelevant, too.

1. The owners of this forum don't just let anyone be a sponsoring manufacturer or dealer.
2. No. BCM and BravoCompanyUSA (two different companies) both pay to be here. I don't make the rules, it's my job to enforce them (this is a non-paid position BTW). When you get your own forum you can make your own rules. As Templar said we've had shills (probably at least 100) possibly more join here to compliment Spikes with all kinds of worship yada yada. How we know they're shills is they join and post maybe 3 times in the same day and then never log in again. I'd call this a clue and I'm not even in law enforcement! We don't have anything against Spikes. I've seen their stuff it's pretty nice. Not quite my cup of tea but hey it's a free market and this is capitalism and I hope they stay in business for a very long time and make a ton of money.

Cheers.

[rob_s]

There is a difference between someone with 10,000 posts saying "here's a new upper I got, and here's how it shoots after 1k rounds" and someone who just registered yesterday, coincidentally right after a bad comment about a product, to say "here's a new upper I got, and I put 60 flawless rounds through it".

FWIW, I don' think that anyone at Spike's put these people up to it. I do, however, think it's the kind of juvenile airsoft mentality shared by a lot of their customers, due in no small part to the way they market themselves. Which I also happen to think is unfortunate because I still believe that Spike's makes the best $800 on the market in years.

[87GN]

If this is where we are to post stuff about Spikes - lets get this party started (just posting links right now but will edit in text and photos where appropriate shortly - can I embed Youtube?):

600 Yards with the FN SCAR and Spike's 5.45 Midlength

Spike's 5.45 midlength 2500 round update and general overview

Spike's 5.45 chokes at 2778 rounds with no lube

[Terry]

If the people who don't understand what Grant, the mods, and other knowledgable people are saying, do they really belong here?
This is the best forum, by far, for no bull shit info on not only the M4 platform, but allot of small arms.
If banning people who will never get it keeps it that way, I am all for it.
I apologise for derailing this thread, but this thread seems to be derailing M4carbine.net!

[SuppressingFire]

87, I recognize you as one of the guys who doesn't have an axe to grind and I respect what you have to say about AR's...guns in general. If you like a gun/brand, I'm pretty confident it will work for me too. I appreciate the info on your blog and the testing and reporting you do, thanks.....you steered me towards a Spikes Middy a while back and I am pleased.

At first I thought that Grant came on very strong about this topic. I have no knowledge of Spikes fanboys spamming the internet and this forum prior to joining this site this year. That's in bad taste but I can't believe that these people were sent here to do that by the company. But w/e, I respected the fact that last month or so Grant pulled out of this debate, it was definately the high road and the professional thing to do. That spoke volumes to me.

Now that Spikes actually "put up", hopefully those that doubted them will "shut up" and we can move on( I mean this respectfully, not as an in your face). I also vote that this whole thread be dematerialized and turned into cyberdust.....it now proves absolutely nothing except that grown men have differences of opinion and often act like children. It is a black eye for the integrity of this site.

I like this forum, I learn a lot and I'm not an arrogant know it all. I have been hesitant to admit that I actually own a couple of Spikes guns because I didn't want to be chastised or insulted or even banned. For a while it looked like the salem witch trials here. Hope we can all get back to business now.

[TOrrock]

I'm nailing the coffin shut on this.

[STAFF]

Like a double edged sword, I don't like TOS for its larger member base....it often takes time to weed through the plinkers, to get to the shooters. What I don't like about this site, is the non acceptance of criticism of the "top tier" brands, even on a small scale. I realize the reason for the rule "contact the manufacturer first", but some threads that are very informative, and not bashing a product at all, and only looking for ideas and knowledge, are sometimes locked, and usually deleted. I have seen it more than once. It seems there are some compelling interests with some companies, of some in charge here. Honestly, I think that is the reason for the smaller member base, here. You don't see an otherwise fair thread, about one defective upper, getting deleted on TOS. I understand the rule, but again, I think anyone with any amount of gun knowledge at all, can recognize a slam thread, and an honest thread about a defective part that slipped through the QC dept.

The rule concerning notifying the manufacturer first is because we understand how just one thread can cause a company thousands of dollars. Too many times the problem with the product or weapon is due to the ineptitude of the owner.

A thread with a title saying; "My BCM rifle won't shoot" will acquire about 100,000 + views over one month. Many people will only read the title of a thread or just the OP's comments. They do not realize that the OP took his BCM completely apart and installed the gas tube in upside down (which came out in page 9 of the discussion).


How many sales did BCM just lose because of that one thread and it wasn't even their fault?

The standard practice on here is to ask the poster if they have contacted the manufacturer about the problem. If they say no, the thread is locked and or removed (depending on the problem and the info in the thread). The OP is told that once the manufacturer is contacted and the problem has been addressed, the thread will be re-opened and the OP can post the resolution.
If the manufacturer choses to not help the OP and or gives them poor customer service, we will not protect the manufacturer and the OP is free to throw them under the bus (no matter if they are a sponsor or not).

We feel that this system is a win win for everyone. The manufacturer receives some top cover and the OP gets their problem resolved and can discuss the problem and fix.

What I don't understand, is with ALL the topics and threads on this site, Spikes gets ONE. One thread. If you post something about Spikes, and its not in that thread, you apparently have done something wrong. I don't buy into the excuse of "shrill" accounts (whatever that is) ruining it for everyone. I have been a part of this site for a long time (dating prior to my registration), and really haven't seen any more obvious shilling (as I would call it) by Spikes people, than I have from any other company. I just don't understand the hate, unless it is due to underlying sponsor politics, or something of that nature. I remember not too long ago, when BCM was bashed by all the Colt "fanboys" for trying to do something great at a good price, and look what Paul accomplished! Bravo (pun intended) to him!

For awhile we were seeing three or four Spikes threads a day. It was the same thing over and over with the same questions. So we lumped them all together and asked members to keep them in one thread.

Manufacturer's employees, friends of the company, fan boys and product owners are caught all the time attempting to push an agenda. It is has been happening since the start of Internet forums. Spikes has more than their share of of the above types.