Any chance of a policy shift?

[rob_s]

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?...d=1#post662497

This thread brings to mind the issue of keeping things on-track in the technical forums, and what exactly constitutes on-track.

Personally, I would prefer to see discussions of why Mark Larue is a douchebag, why you shouldn't buy Leatherman/Ruger/S&W products because of their past politics, etc. kept out of the technical forums. If people cannot separate the product from the person then it seems to me that the discussion of the person is not "technical" and as such belongs in the General Discussion section, for which the description reads "Current Events, News, Politics, etc."

Yes, no, maybe? It would be nice to be able to discuss the actual products themselves without the personal politics coming into play.

[Stickman]

It would be nice to be able to discuss the actual products themselves without the personal politics coming into play.

I was recently at a meeting with a group of LE instructors, and the topic of reading firearm boards to stay up to date on items came up. A few different names were mentioned, and M4C came up. The response from multiple instructors was that M4C used to be a good place, but that it had gone downhill. The primary reason given was the board allowance for badmouthing and name calling whatever posters didn't like. The issue was that these were common place, and that the comments had no bearing on the discussion. To have to wade through a thread based on people bad mouthing an item who had no actual experience with it or idea what they were talking about was considered unacceptable.

Comments bad mouthing ARMS and Spikes Tactical that were nothing more name calling were considered prime examples the board not being a professional resource. There was another example given that I can't recall.

There is a difference between someone giving information in a thread that relates to the topic, and someone jumping in for no reason to bad mouth a company they don't like or don't have experience with.

IMHO the tech forums allow far to much of the above, and evidently there are other professionals that see it that was as well.

[LOKNLOD]

I agree.

[thopkins22]

I've always kind of felt that new members should be required to reiterate the gist of rob_s' "A Qualified Opinion" thread to a moderator or staff member before gaining the ability to post.

Would that be a good thing in practice? I don't know. For the majority of the new membership it certainly would be, but I don't know how some of the experts that are new to the board would feel about going through that.

It's certainly a lot worse lately. I worried when I saw an ad in SWAT, and at some point the old guard can't self moderate every single thread for BS. ETA:I understand the need to grow the board, both to stay relevant and keep advertisers happy.

On the flip side, I don't think M4C should go all out like Lightfighter either.

[rljatl]

Yes, Lightfighter over does it, imo.

[Sparky5019]

Now, I am relatively new here but I have to agree! I think it would be good to not alow new members to post until they had been a member like 30 days (?) or had x number of thread views (can that be tracked/specified?). That would not have bothered me at all; personally I did not post an opinion until I had experience with x product and I also gave myself time to "marinate" in the culture and understand the weapon platform a little before I posted much in the way of opinions.

I also think it might be good to have the moderators "approve" new threads especially and maybe the first 6-12 posts of members who have been here less than 90 days (?).

Also, would it help to sub divide some of the more newbie questions/threads so they can be found easier (like a "newbie forum") since most don't think of searching and sometimes the search engine here has hiccups? I know the General AR Discussion is supposed to serve here but may be it would keep the riff-raff questions and bitching to a minimum. Just a thought! Just trying to offer solutions from a newer member's perspective. I think they should "marinate" a little because posting should be a privilege not a right...especially when there are folks here with combined hundreds of years of experience; we should listen (read) more and talk (type) less!

Sparky

[HeavyDuty]

Question for site staff: is M4C using vB's infraction annex?

I'm a long time co-mod on a very large music forum where we have never-ending problems with bad actors and trolls. To combat this in an objective way that takes up a minimum amount of time we started using the infraction annex a few years back. It helps us keep a lid on things.

Basically, predetermined point loads are set up for various types of infractions (trolling, commercial spam, fighting, general douchebaggery, etc.) and the mods can quickly infract individual posts. An infraction causes an automatic PM to be sent to the user to tell them of the action. Once a user's point load reaches a certain point the board automatically bans the user for a set period of time; once you pass a particular number of points it's permanent.

Maybe this would be a way of improving the S/N ratio?

[John_Wayne777]

Personally, I would prefer to see discussions of why Mark Larue is a douchebag, why you shouldn't buy Leatherman/Ruger/S&W products because of their past politics, etc. kept out of the technical forums.

As far as preferences go, that's mine as well.

...but as far as the forums go, that's a requirement.

To be honest, threads like "Mark LaRue is a douchebag" have zero place on M4Carbine.net.

The mods and staff here at M4C are generally busy people with at least one full time job, families, various civic and social commitments, and occasionally we even manage to find time to get to the range and shoot. As the forum has grown it's become increasingly difficult for mods/staffers to keep up with what is going on in every thread in every forum. Sometimes we may miss things, and sometimes we just may not have run into them yet because we're busy with other things. Personally speaking there are forums on this site I never venture into because my hands are full dealing with the forums I'm responsible for modding.

If you see something you think we've missed, by all means use the report feature or IM a mod/staffer and let them know that something is rotten in Denmark. We'll be more than happy to look into it and, if necessary, crush offending accounts mercilessly.

It's always going to be a challenge trying to balance the desire to be a resource for the people on the highest level and yet remain open to the ordinary joe just off the street looking for information. It's likely that from time to time our attempt to strike that balance will not meet with the approval of one or either of those groups. While some of that is inevitable, I think we can crush the majority of it.

So I'll go on record here asking for your help in policing the forums. If you see something that looks out of place or out of bounds, by all means feel free to contact a mod/staffer and let them know. I think I can say with great certainty that the rest of the guys take reports from members seriously and we do what we can to resolve problems. Sometimes response may not be instant because we solicit input from other mods/staffers/primary players/etc, but stuff is happening even if it's not visible to everybody.

Ideally people would keep stuff on track and stick to technical discussions in the technical forums voluntarily...but if it takes putting on the riot gear and busting some heads...well...we can do that too.

As far as overall tenor of the forums go, we don't want to be needlessly hostile to the new or the uniformed lest this become a board of a small group of people with personality problems chatting amongst themselves about how awesome they are...but neither do we want to become the tactical equivalent of karaoke night at the Marietta, Ohio Holiday Inn bar. There's a happy medium and I think most of our members understand that. If you identify someone who doesn't get it, we'll be more than happy to educate them.

[sinister]

There are a few boards that people don't like simply for the fact they are internally moderated and policed.

While not as bad as AR15.com, this place often looks like a kindergarten.

"This guy's a douchebag" kind of threads have no business on technical forums -- you either like the hardware or you don't. Comment about whether or not the gear works, works as claimed, or as advertised, or on the company's business practices or lack of customer service. Anything else (especially not notifying the guy you're potentially allowing folks to slander) is bullshit.

You can wonder all you want, but there are places where some industry professionals just plain refuse to visit or post on.

[thopkins22]

So I think the message is... If we enjoy having intelligent discussions and IPs/SMEs chiming in, every member needs to step up and A)make sure his own input is intelligent and professional, and B)tutor/report those who aren't getting it before it becomes a larger problem.

I still think the qualified opinion thread(or a new locked post from a moderator/staffer should at least be stuck up top on the tech forums.