Training Balance and How Good is Good Enough? By Kyle Defoor

[wes007]

Not sure if many of you read Mr. Defoor's blog but he had a particular entry that was an eye opener. Full article below:

A problem we’ve seen lately. Identified by JD, he relayed to me and I took some notes over the past few classes. It’s definitely there, more so now than I’ve seen in the past. A lot of people are becoming obsessed with shooting tests, unrealistic scenarios, and just plain silly drills (more on these later).

The first thing you need to do is clearly identify your needs of training FOR THE REAL WORLD, such as; carbine, pistol, blade, combatives, physical fitness, tactics. Once you’ve made a list of the what, honestly ask yourself what you really NEED the most and which one you just LIKE to do. Here lies the problem. We (humans) like to practice what we’re good at, and what makes us feel good. Over time this is a recipe for disaster.

Prioritize those needs- Next step is to put in order those training needs according to your job/application. Again, people aren’t honest with themselves. They want to do what is sexy or easy.

Myself as an example:

1) Fitness
2) Combatives
3) Blade
4) Pistol
5) Carbine
6) Tactics

What you say Kyle? You teach shooting for a living and pistol and carbine are 4 and 5? That’s right. REAL WORLD, remember? The chances of me using a carbine for real again are slim to none. Pistol is a little better (because I carry some). The biggest thing is I shoot both weapons week in and week out,every day!, so my need to train them is not there. My most likely scenario as a civilian is a fight in very close quarters. The blade is always with, but, hand to hand is more likely first. I list fitness number one because it helps so much in a fight, and the survivability and recovering of a confrontation. In my opinion fitness has to be in the top spot regardless.

An anonymous active duty friend's list:

1)Fitness
2)Tactics
3)Carbine
4)Blade
5)Combatives
6)Pistol

An anymous LEO friend's list:

1) Fitness
2) Pistol
3) Tactics
4) Carbine
5) Combatives
6) Blade

Prioritize.....

Link [URL="http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/05/training-balance-and-how-good-is-good.html#comments"]

My list as of now and reasons:
1) Fitness: For reasons that Mr. Defoor mentioned as well as being able to get yourself out of a situation as fast as possible. Sprinting is a natural defense mechanism that is often overlooked because of the ego side of the house/laziness, but if running away from a situation is an option you best believe I'm going to take it. Saving a half second on my reload is important but getting my ass out of the line of fire a half second faster is equally as important to me
2) Combatives/ Self defense: For reasons that Mr. Defoor mentioned as well as training for the worst case scenario. Situations on the streets are not hollywood and are more dynamic than people tend to give credit too.
3) Situational Awareness: Learning how to increase it has been something I've been working on for awhile because a lack of it can get you or your loved ones killed.
4) Pistol: For reasons Mr. Defoor mentioned
5) Blade: Just about anywhere I go whether it be my house car or grocery store, there is usually some form of edged weapon that I have access to.
6) Carbine: For when shit really hits the fan...

I'm not an expert by any means on any subject matter just wanted to share my thoughts.

What are your thoughts and reasons?

[6933]

If J.D. and Kyle are talking about it, then it has substance.

[YammyMonkey]

Personally, I'd go:

Fitness
Combatives
Tactics
Pistol
Blade
Carbine

Same reasoning that Kyle uses. While I enjoy shooting my AR in the grand scheme of things if my ability to avoid, deter & de-escalate fails, the above items, in the above order will be what gets me out of trouble.

There's a big difference between doing what you like & doing what you need.

A lot of guys who take training classes are, in fact, not training. They're hobbyists who like to take classes. As noted by someone else on another forum, that's not necessarily bad as long as we're all honest with ourselves about it & what that means.

[rifleman2000]

1. Fitness. The building block of everything else. If you are not fit, you cannot perform under stress.
2. Tactics. Tactics dictate what tools and goals you set for you actions. It does you no good to be excellent with a knife/pistol/rifle if you put yourself in a position that compromises the effectiveness of the tools. One man with weapon is minimal combat power and doctrinally cannot take on a similarly equipped individual with more than a 50% chance of success. Tactics will tell you when to hold your fire, when to run, when to engage, and how to avoid your enemies attacks.
3. Rifle/pistol. Depends on your job or specific situation. For me it is rifle. Learn to use it well so when you are in a tactically sound position, you can effectively engage targets.
4. Combatives/blade. Can be part of fitness, and should be a goal of tactics. As in avoiding combatives if at all possible.

[RogerinTPA]

Not sure if many of you read Mr. Defoor's blog but he had a particular entry that was an eye opener. Full article below:

A problem we’ve seen lately. Identified by JD, he relayed to me and I took some notes over the past few classes. It’s definitely there, more so now than I’ve seen in the past. A lot of people are becoming obsessed with shooting tests, unrealistic scenarios, and just plain silly drills (more on these later).

The first thing you need to do is clearly identify your needs of training FOR THE REAL WORLD, such as; carbine, pistol, blade, combatives, physical fitness, tactics. Once you’ve made a list of the what, honestly ask yourself what you really NEED the most and which one you just LIKE to do. Here lies the problem. We (humans) like to practice what we’re good at, and what makes us feel good. Over time this is a recipe for disaster.

Prioritize those needs- Next step is to put in order those training needs according to your job/application. Again, people aren’t honest with themselves. They want to do what is sexy or easy.

Myself as an example:

1) Fitness
2) Combatives
3) Blade
4) Pistol
5) Carbine
6) Tactics

What you say Kyle? You teach shooting for a living and pistol and carbine are 4 and 5? That’s right. REAL WORLD, remember? The chances of me using a carbine for real again are slim to none. Pistol is a little better (because I carry some). The biggest thing is I shoot both weapons week in and week out,every day!, so my need to train them is not there. My most likely scenario as a civilian is a fight in very close quarters. The blade is always with, but, hand to hand is more likely first. I list fitness number one because it helps so much in a fight, and the survivability and recovering of a confrontation. In my opinion fitness has to be in the top spot regardless.

An anonymous active duty friend's list:

1)Fitness
2)Tactics
3)Carbine
4)Blade
5)Combatives
6)Pistol

An anymous LEO friend's list:

1) Fitness
2) Pistol
3) Tactics
4) Carbine
5) Combatives
6) Blade

Prioritize.....

Link [URL="http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/05/training-balance-and-how-good-is-good.html#comments"]

My list as of now and reasons:
1) Fitness: For reasons that Mr. Defoor mentioned as well as being able to get yourself out of a situation as fast as possible. Sprinting is a natural defense mechanism that is often overlooked because of the ego side of the house/laziness, but if running away from a situation is an option you best believe I'm going to take it. Saving a half second on my reload is important but getting my ass out of the line of fire a half second faster is equally as important to me
2) Combatives/ Self defense: For reasons that Mr. Defoor mentioned as well as training for the worst case scenario. Situations on the streets are not hollywood and are more dynamic than people tend to give credit too.
3) Situational Awareness: Learning how to increase it has been something I've been working on for awhile because a lack of it can get you or your loved ones killed.
4) Pistol: For reasons Mr. Defoor mentioned
5) Blade: Just about anywhere I go whether it be my house car or grocery store, there is usually some form of edged weapon that I have access to.
6) Carbine: For when shit really hits the fan...

I'm not an expert by any means on any subject matter just wanted to share my thoughts.

What are your thoughts and reasons?

Agreed with the last part of your post.

As a Civilian, living in a major metro area mine are slightly different:

1. Situational Awareness: If developed to a heighten state, can detect to engage or avoid, most armed or strong arm encounters.
2. Mindset: Most important factor above all else. If you aren't mentally prepared to deal with a deadly encounter, you become the casualty. Size of the fight in the Dog. Total & complete commitment once engaged.
3.Physical Fitness: Important, but can be a problem for some due to age, medical history. However, I have been a witness to several instances where the skinny, fat or elderly, even malnourished, prevailed, to include combat, due to mindset. Even in carbine and pistol courses I've attended.
4.Training to proficiency with: Combatives, Pistol (my daily carry), Tactics, Blade, Carbine.

[Renegade]

1) Fitness/Mental Game
2) Tactics/Common Sense/Situational awareness skills
3) First aid skills
4) Hand/Hand
5) Pistol
6) Rifle
7) Blade

Can't imagine how many altercations, gun fights, stampedes, lightning strikes, etc., through #2 alone, but it is probably a lot. There is no substitute for street smarts you get growing up in NYC.

[Sproggy]

As an LEO mine are

1. Fitness/ Tactics
2. Combatives
3. Pistol
4. Blade
5. Rifle/Shotgun

Tactics go a long way towards preventing things from escalating and keeping me out of bad positions, so I put it up top with fitness. As for the rest, I frequently have to go hands on but have yet to shoot anyone. I carry a blade(on my weak side) in case im on my back and in a bad situation where someone is going for my gun. And the rifle or shotgun isnt likely to get pulled out very often.

[Ga Shooter]

My question is where do you get tactics training unless you are mil or leo? From my understanding all the classes offered to civies are weapons handling which is great but I think tactics is what will save your butt.

[Shawn.L]

My question is where do you get tactics training unless you are mil or leo? From my understanding all the classes offered to civies are weapons handling which is great but I think tactics is what will save your butt.

I know here in Western PA FIRE Institute offers tactics classes that are centered on the civilian use of arms and focus on things like carjacking, home invasion, robbery, and the like. They are very good classes.
Grey Group had a great review up of Southnarc ECQC class with videos, and I would see that at "tactics".
Randy Cain does a Close Quarters Tactics.
Some trainers such as MCS do a lot of FoF and role playing in classes which can very useful.

on topic:

Physical fitness (working on it, stopped smoking a few years ago, started working out this year, getting better)
H2H (currently taking TKD weekly)
Pistol (1/2 dozen or so classes, compete, practice weekly)
Carbine (Its not a SHTF gun, its a weapon that WORKS and in my home its the best tool for the job. This means the priority on my carbine (2 classes so far) is work inside short range, narrow halls, and barricades, low light. Practice every other week with pistol at least)
Emergency preparedness (realisit stuff like power outages and water main breaks)

I used to rank knife up in there. But as it stands I feel pretty good about using my hands, and Im looking less to the blade as a equalizer. If I need deadly force I have a pistol. I have had one blade class, and Id take another, but Im just not sold anymore on it being high priority.

The "tactics" is kinda a overall priority, and I guess it depends on your definition. In a fight with muliple opponets moving to line up your oppents is a tactic. Does that count as H2H ? But it realtes to firearms as well.......... What about recognizing and moving to cover? Thats not just pistol or carbine, or maybe your unarmed but your assailant is not.
I think for me that all of the above need practiced with appropriate tactics.

[mkaeding]

I am not a big "list" guy but found this thread interesting. Kyle's part II post discusses a method for prioritizing training
by creating a second list that ranks your skills and compares them to the initial wish list. Simply enough, but sometimes seeing it on paper drives the necessary information home.

See http://www.kyledefoor.com/