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Thread: POF Contact....

  1. #21
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    I've not seen any head-to-head comparisons between the POF and LWRC. But there is this interesting quote floating around various forums purportedly from Larry Vickers:
    1) I am still a consultant for HK

    2)I have 2 HK416 uppers (10 & 14.5 inch) - not complete weapons - yet

    3)I have an LWRC SRT gun that I have been using some lately that runs like a champ; it would be my first choice in a piston AR of what is currently available since the HK416 is not

    4) A Colt 6920 is a very good gun ( I used one for a long time while instructing) and is just fine for most civilian and LE users - just keep it lubed

    5) I recommend a piston AR for the following;

    a) barrel length less than 14.5 inches
    b) extensive full auto fire
    c) wide variety of ammo being used
    d) suppressed use

    6) I hope the HK416 & 417 will be available to civilians and individual LE officers someday - I have campaigned tirelessly for this since the 416 was introduced

    7) The 416 would be my first choice in a 5.56mm assault rifle if given the option

    8) I have seen alot of ammo shot out of a 416 (probably more than anyone in the USA) - and in my experience it is MORE accurate than a DI AR - I have seen a 10 inch 416 shoot minute of angle from a machine rest at the factory after being fired 12,000 rds during a lot acceptance test - I, like others who witnessed it, would never have believed it is I had not seen it myself

    9) The spec ops users of the 416 I train and know love the gun except for the weight (it has a fairly heavy barrel under that rail system) - HK is offering a lighter profile barrel as an option now

    10) I have shot the POF and LWRC and prefer the LWRC for its low weight, quality construction, and use of standard receiver height for optics. The POF is nice but I dont like the taller rail system and nose heavy feel as much, but it is just as functional. [NOTE: this paragraph may not have been part of the original Vickers post; see post 24 below for more info]

    Hope this clears some things up

    Cheers

    Larry Vickers
    Personally, I don't like the idea of milling down a normal rail until it's paper thin in spots. Doesn't sound like a combat-ready setup to me.

    There are a few semi-interesting posts on TOS discussing POF versus LWRC, but frankly it's mostly things like "Person X says he's seen two Brand X piston guns go down hard during a class but the Brand Y guns ran great." But go ahead and do a search there and other forums and see what you come up with.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo View Post
    If I weren't in the middle of remodeling my entire house right now, I'd buy a POF and an LWRC (and any other gas piston system as soon as it's available), and I'd do the side by side comparison testing.
    Small world. I've recently gone through the POF versus LWRC decision process and I'm up to my eyeballs in a whole-house remodel, too. I feel your pain.

    I also want to mention that comparing a single specimen of two products would only be good for comparing features. Any testing of relative reliability and even accuracy that is statistically valid would have to test a number of rifles from each manufacturer.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo View Post
    Does ANYONE here know the differences between these gas piston designs? Mainly, referring to the LWRC and the POF, since they are available, or will be real soon.
    I have worked on both of them.
    I prefer the POF.

    Here's why...

    The system dis-assembles from the FRONT of the front sight base.
    This makes it more able to use different rail systems.
    If there were room, a one-piece rail system could be fitted and never removed.

    The LWRC system needs the top rail to come off in order to service the piston.
    Everyone will tell you that you never have to clean the piston system, but it's still a good practice to "check under the hood" every few thousand rounds.
    How else are you going to know if there is any wear on those parts?

    You have completely left out an ARES conversion kit.
    Take any good carbine length gas system upper and drop an Ares kit into it.
    The only issue I have read about on those is the roll pin drifting out.
    My suggestion is to tap both the FSB and the spigot 4-40 and rocksett a screw in place.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  4. #24
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    Hey sproc and Randall,
    That is all EXCELLENT INFO brothas!
    I'm SO glad you guys posted all that, as it really is nice to know that Vickers thinks both the POF and LWRC are decent.
    I also am glad he has campaigned for the Hk's to get in production here in the states, and I'm sure he'll eventually have his way.
    Until then, I'm going with LWRC or POF.
    Does ANYONE here know anything about the LMT??? I saw a huge article on it, along with excellent pics, in the latest Guns and Ammo magazine, entitled "Book of the AR15".
    I've been waiting for this magazine to hit the streets for weeks now, and I've finally got it, and low and behold it had the LMT gas piston write-up in it!
    WHO KNOWS when the LMT will be available????
    I'm sure SOMEONE has spoken to LMT about this???

    Thanks again sproc and Randall. I especially look forward to hearing about your shop experiences Randall. I'm somewhat of a machinist myself, and I absolutely love to see all your jigs, and machines you post from time to time.
    I recently sold off my lathe (in hopes of upgrading), along with my Bridgeport mill, but I will soon be back in the saddle, and buy some nicer machines to play with..
    What kind of lathe do you run Randall? An import or an old American Classic of some kind???? (ie - Southbend, Clausing, Leblond, Monarch, Hardinge, etc, etc)????

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo View Post
    What kind of lathe do you run Randall? An import or an old American Classic of some kind???? (ie - Southbend, Clausing, Leblond, Monarch, Hardinge, etc, etc)????
    I have a 2005 vintage 12x36 taiwan machine.
    It's been a great machine, but no foot brake.

    We used to have an 80's Clausing vari-speed at work before they got rid of the machine shop.
    It was a 13x40 with a foot brake.
    I really miss that lathe.
    When it comes time to move my shop, I'll probably sell the taiwan machine and obtain a Clausing vari-speed 13x40 of my own.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  6. #26
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    The Vickers quote I posted above was one I grabbed from some other forum that I can't even find anymore. Not feeling comfortable quoting somebody without being sure it was accurate, I went looking for the original quote. I found it here on M4C:

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.p...7&postcount=99

    However, it does not include paragraph #10, which mentions the POF. I don't know if somebody else inserted that or if Vickers himself posted a slightly different version elsewhere that included the POF mention.

    So unless somebody can confirm that Vickers said that about the POF, I guess I'd assume he only commented on the HK416 and LWRC piston guns.

  7. #27
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    Well I have seen the inside mechanics of the LWRC, and the LMT piston guns, but I have NOT seen the insides of the Hk or the POF systems.
    Does anyone have pics of the Hk or POF gas systems???
    We NEED some up close pics of them! I know I read the POF does NOT use springs of any kind in their system, which is interesting.
    The LMT and the LWRC have springs, and can easily be seen when looking at the setups.
    I have no idea how the Hk system works, (or the POF), and I would love to see up close pics of these two.
    I am also interested to hear from anyone who knows about the LMT system, as it's got a really weird looking piston. They DO refer to it as a piston, but it really looks nothing like a piston (IMO)...

  8. #28
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    POF and others

    I have the POF, LWR-a LMT conversion job, Bushmaster gas piston AKA POF and a Colt M4 in my hands. I will compare as soon as I can get the range time set up. In the meanwhile, I will take some pics of all in the next few days.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSHNT2015 View Post
    LWR-a LMT conversion job
    A what? Do you mean an LMT upper converted by LWRC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BSHNT2015 View Post
    I will compare as soon as I can get the range time set up. In the meanwhile, I will take some pics of all in the next few days.
    That would be outstanding. Looking forward to it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoochild View Post
    Such as? And I assume you will post your infamous upside down pictures of your piston rifle when you build it.

    Pretty safe bet.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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