Front Sight Training Institute

[RancidSumo]

I got a lifetime membership to Front Sight for graduation last week. I know that many here do not really like the place due to the video that they used and other things but please try to keep that out of the equation as I am not giving them any of my money, simply using a membership I already have.

Is the training that I will receive there of fairly high quality? I know it may not be as good as going to a Dynamics/Vickers/etc. course but I don't really have the money for that right now (college is EXPENSIVE) so I am planning on heading down to Vegas in a month or so to take their handgun course, providing the knowledge base here doesn't think that will do more harm than good.

Thanks in advance.

[120mm]

I've never been there, but I've never heard of Frontsight teaching anything wrong and harmful.

It is apparently better than nothing and it cost you nothing so far.

The question I'd ask myself in your shoes, is if you sold the certificate, what could you get for it?

Add to that the costs of actually attending the class.

Personally, as a college student, I'd explore options, first. Maybe find someone local willing to give free/cheap instruction.

[Outrider]

I knew a couple of their firearms instructors and what they had to teach with firearms, in my opinion, was useful. I took a carbine course with one after he left Front Sight to do his own thing. He was a local LE instructor at the time and it was a positive experience.

From what I have heard and seen when I was in Vegas, most of the problems Front Sight has have to do with the guy who owns it, Ignatius Piazza. He had tried to do some sort of planned community with unlimited use of the Front Sight facilities and training. It did succeed in getting money in at first. However, it was a bust for Front Sight financially because you had people repeatedly going through classes, taking up space that prevented new paying people from occupying. Further, the homes were never built so there was a lawsuit. I believe there was a court approved settlement.

In addition, an instructor told me there was also an exodus of some of the instructors after Piazza started to push his religious views on them.

And then, there was a fatal accident there with a visitor using the zip line. That really made them look bad. Basically Front Sight didn't follow their own safety procedures, didn't provide the guy with a helmet, there was a 16 year old running the thing and he let the guy go before he should have. There was a separate lawsuit from that accident.

[CoryCop25]

From the little information I know about it, the instructors follow an outline of the course. They do not deviate from the outline and in my opinion, you can't ever get ahead of the learning curve. You must do it their way and the student can not suggest a better way to perform a specific drill.

[G_M]

A co-worker went to Frontsight to get some pistol training. He came back with a few things that I felt were contrary to the norm taught in well established training centers.

1) They taught him strict Weaver style for pistol work.

Leads me to wonder what their philosophy is behind teaching Weaver and how they came to that conclusion. When every established school in the US, Military, Law Enforcement and all the top level competitors shoot Isosceles I wonder what exactly is going through their heads. The only people that shoot Weaver now are Hollywood actors.

2) I have been told that they teach proper flashlight use. However when I questioned him (co-worker) what kind of light he was going to get he told me no way. A flashlight is a big no no since its a bullet magnet. I thought to myself dang! Here I was thinking I'll get some free tips on low light work but nope!

So I don't know what happened there. Poor student? Poor instructor? or a little of both? Either way I probably won't be knocking on his door after the sun sets.

LMS has a presence in the Vegas area and they are definitely good to go. You might save your good money and ammunition for a class from them. They are based out of Fenerly NV so it looks like a equal trip from WY.

Even though class may be free ammunition is not. Neither is gas/plane ticket or hotel. So why spend good money and time on someone that has a questionable reputation when there are better options in NV.

I don't think they will teach you anything too bad (but again I wonder what their mindset is when they teach Weaver and how that may translate to other things they teach). But I will say you can probably get more out of your money if you try other options in that area.

[Oscar 319]

My opinion? "Dr." Iggy Piazza is a grade A piece of shit after his "Stop Screaming, Start Shooting" promo.

Before that, I just considered him a scam artist with no credibility as a trainer/instructor.

On the upside? They give a free XD with a class.

I would never give him, or anything he represents a dime.

Read on: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=46290&page=1

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34175

These are the folks I picture when I think of Front Sight: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55363

[JSantoro]

due to the video that they used and other things

That's a symptom, not the disease.

They're very set-piece in their training. Instead of attempting to teach to a standard, they teach to a doctrine; theirs.

That, and the guy that owns it looks in the mirror every morning, sees that mustache of his, and thinks something along the lines of "Oh, yeah, that's the look I want!" Clearly insane.

It's a fantastic gesture on the part of your family, though. By all means, take advantage of it, but pursue other training opportunities from other instructors to the best of your ability.

[RancidSumo]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Like I said earlier, I know there are better options out there but it seems like training with them will get my foot in the door of proper training and won't really leave training scars. Is this pretty much an accurate statement?

[PRGGodfather]

Well, I don't know "Naish" personally. From what I have heard, sometimes the notion makes me feel a little slimy.

I do know a few of the instructors there: Wes L'Huillier, Richard Moreno, Scott Hoerner and Justin Campbell -- and they are all good guys, who watched my six when I couldn't do it myself.

Never having taken a class from them, as I need to be able to transition to my pistol if my carbine is out of service, I cannot comment as to curriculum or the organization as a whole.

Perhaps not the best, and perhaps not the worst, but at the end of the day, I have a very simple outlook coming from very occupied territory: He who is not against me, stands with me.

Yeah, I cannot say I agree or even like the marketing approach that "Naish" has used now or in the past. Yet, at least he tries to preserve the only real right that means anything when it comes to freedom; which is more than what most of us are really willing to do. It's easy to criticize from a keyboard.

Yeah, "Naish" makes a pretty penny having such "good intentions," but I still cannot fault him for such success. In the end, at least he has enough common sense to hire a few decent employees.

And yes, there are a few tools, too, -- but I will let you learn who they are, all by yourself.

Yes, I find some of "Naish's" marketing reprehensible. Yet, I would hoist a beer with him before I would share any air with Charles Schumer, and that's pretty much how simple I can be (and Barry O wouldn't even need to broker it!)

In my advanced age, it seems to make more sense to build other gun folks up, rather than tear them down. Our candles don't shine brighter, just because we blew out someone else's candle. And frankly, every time we do that, we may wish to ask ourselves why we thought others would perceive us as decent folk, after doing so.

An old salty Sergeant taught me this decades ago, "There is good training and there is bad training. Yet, it is all good training -- because we may learn to tell the difference."

YMMV. Please say hi to the boys for me if you decide free is a decent price.

[RancidSumo]

I figured they were mostly GTG but I was just looking for anything I needed to keep my eye out for such as the Weaver stance issue. Thanks everyone, I'm heading down there in September hopefully for a four day handgun.