Live fire demos by instructors?

[NCPatrolAR]

While we touched slightly on this topic in a thread a while back, let's explore this a bit more.

When you attend a training course, how important is it for you to see the instructor perform live-fire demonstrations of the material being taught? Does it matter if he actual shoots at a target or just into a berm?

[Joeywhat]

I find it very important.

Target vs berm matters with what is being taught, and if I know the capabilities of the instructor. I primarily train with one instructor, and have taken plenty of his classes. I know what he can do, I don't need to see his hits on paper to know...sometimes it's just easier for him to put rounds into the berm instead of on paper, which would then need to be changed.

But sometimes rounds on paper makes a certain point, and if I don't know the instructor it helps to find their abilites and to make sure they can do what they preach.

I think live fire demos are always important. It's good for students to see exactly what they are supposed to do, as opposed to just hearing it and filling in the blanks themselves.

I wouldn't take a class with someone who is unable to do what they teach.

[Abraxas]

I wouldn't take a class from someone who is unable to do what they teach.

I think that this sums up how I feel

[John_Wayne777]

When you attend a training course, how important is it for you to see the instructor perform live-fire demonstrations of the material being taught? Does it matter if he actual shoots at a target or just into a berm?

Speaking personally here, it depends on what the instructor is teaching. Some things really do require seeing it done to understand. Some things do not. In general I think it's a good thing for an instructor to demo as much as possible.

As for target vs. berm, occasionally shooting the berm is fine. If the instructor never puts rounds on an actual target, however, I would get extremely suspicious unless I knew him really well beforehand.

[Pathfinder Ops]

I find it very important.

Target vs berm matters with what is being taught, and if I know the capabilities of the instructor. I primarily train with one instructor, and have taken plenty of his classes. I know what he can do, I don't need to see his hits on paper to know...sometimes it's just easier for him to put rounds into the berm instead of on paper, which would then need to be changed.

But sometimes rounds on paper makes a certain point, and if I don't know the instructor it helps to find their abilites and to make sure they can do what they preach.

I think live fire demos are always important. It's good for students to see exactly what they are supposed to do, as opposed to just hearing it and filling in the blanks themselves.

I wouldn't take a class with someone who is unable to do what they teach.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As an instructor I feel my students get validation of the skill set's goal, by seeing it done.

There is a teaching theory (we use, as do many other organizations) that goes:

• Demonstrate the skill correctly, in real time. This allows the student to see the desired skill as you wish them to do it.
• Demo the skill slowly while explaining the individual steps of the skill. This breaks down the overall skill so that finer points (especially in a complex or multifaceted skill) can be grasped.
• Have the student repeat it. Have the student practice the skill at their pace (initially, then at the desired standard).
• Tweak the students performance until the desired outcome is achieved. Fluency with a skill is the desired goal. Coaching them through is the instructor, student polishing what has been evolving.

Essentially: show it, teach it, have student do it, tweak it for quality.

An instructor who does not demonstrate a skill is not fully teaching they are under serving their students.

As for into a target or the berm: As stated ...... it depends.

If I am teaching a stance for example its not really a necessity to print the paper. That's not the point of the skill.

If however I'm talking about sites & height over bore (for example) its obvious (to me) that I must show the print of the rounds impact as a matter of illustrating the skill. Anything else falls short and is now didactic versus a demonstrative teaching situation.

Some things can be talked about (lecture/didactic). Other things must be displayed (demonstrative).

This should be an intuitive approach for an instructor. Knowing when to talk and when to show.

[C4IGrant]

While we touching slightly on this topic in a thread a while back, let's explore this a bit more.

When you attend a training course, how important is it for you to see the instructor perform live-fire demonstrations of the material being taught? Does it matter if he actual shoots at a target or just into a berm?

Very important for the following reasons:

1. I might not have fully understood what the instructor wanted me to do and seeing it would help a lot.
2. If the instructor does that drill well, then that shows me they "practice what they preach."

When I teach pistol and carbine, I either ALWAYS demo the drill or at least ask if someone needs to see it done.


C4

[jwalk84]

Having an instructor do demos is very important because I want to know they can do what they are teaching and expecting out of students. Also, I know I learn better by seeing things done as opposed to just having instructions told to me.

As for target or berm, personally I would always like to see targets being used. It would just be more validation on the instructors skills, and show the students that when using this techinque (or whatever is being taught) you can turn that into a good final result.

I think this especially applies to drills that are being ran on a timer or being scored.

Justin

[Patrick Aherne]

I make it a point to demonstrate what I teach, not every drill, but at least a couple, during the course of every instructional block. Some because the student needs to see it done correctly to replicate the motion.

I also believe it is good for an instructor to bone it every now and then. I usually use it as a teaching point and show how everyone makes mistakes. It makes you more human and builds empathy with the student.

I have more respect for those instructors who are willing to push it and screw up in front of students. It shows real confidence. Now, I am not advocating muffing a drill on purpose, or regularly screwing up. More like using a muffed drawstroke to show the correct draw from a 6004, etc.

[PRGGodfather]

Agree wholeheartedly. It's good to see an instructor perform well, push his own physical limits, and demonstrate the importance of knowing one's skills and limits in order to improve. It's good to practice the presentation, from communication to safety to demos. That's what pros do.

The instructor never needs to be the best shot in the class, he just needs to be the best teacher he can be, and thus, be well-rounded and competent when demonstrating technique.

There will always be someone faster, stronger, and even they have the occasional bad day -- so if your ego is in the instruction that motivates the demo or causes you not to demo -- it's just a matter of time before your students realize you're not what you think you are or claim to be, and they will learn better from someone who meets their needs, and respect that person more than you.

Those who expect perfection are foolish, and those who think they can attain perfection, are fools. Excellence; however, can be achieved in many areas of life, if one is willing to set ego aside and continuously improve.

[Chameleox]

I really want to print this out and give it to our academy staff.
The most I've learned in the last 4 years came when I went to Safariland's Shooting School. We had 2 great instructors for maybe 15 of us. Not only did they explain the drills well, but they demonstrated them within the allotted time. A lot of the class also ran in a friendly competition format. The instructors jumped in frequently and shot alongside us, which A) made a lot of us up our game, and B) reinforced our confidence in them.
In 6 years of shooting as a citizen and cop, that was the best training day I ever had.