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Thread: M16A5 Stock by VLTOR

  1. #21
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    i posted my writeup on it yesterday with some info/pics:

    http://militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.furniture2.html#a5

    "The Vltor Weapons Systems A5 Buffer & Recoil System was developed for the specific needs of U.S. Military users of the M16A4 rifle (or AR-15's with rifle-length gas systems). The A5 system provides the functionality of a collapsible stock while maintaining rifle-length buffer system reliability. It includes a newly designed buffer and receiver extension.

    Description - One of the issues encountered by current users of the M16A4 rifle (the USMC and U.S. Army) is its overall length and maneuverability. The 20" barrel (while providing additional velocity) and fixed A2 stock configuration has proven less than optimal for some of the close-quarter/house-to-house fighting encountered in recent engagements, especially when combined with the body armour being worn. The added thickness of body armour, sometimes consisting of soft inserts plus a plate can cause the A2 stock to be too long, especially when a less bladed stance is used.

    Another issue is that of reliability. As the M16 series of rifles evolved into specialized configurations like the SPR, Mk18 etc, each of them using different combinations of barrel and gas-systems, attempts to universally use the standard collapsible stock on all platforms have encountered issues. The solution is not as simple as sticking the A4 rifle uppers on lower receivers with carbine collapsible stocks. Some of the issues that arise are increased rate of fire on full auto and inconsistent carrier velocities. Putting a heavier weight buffer in a carbine system (like the Army's H6 buffer) is one solution, but also comes with its share of associated issues.

    The Vltor A5 package is a replacement stock system for users of the the M16A4 rifle (as found on the M16A4) who want to maintain the same reliability, carrier velocity and rate of fire as the rifle-length A2 stock, while adding the functionality of an adjustable stock. This is achieved by a new buffer and receiver extension (buffer tube), and the use of the standard rifle length buffer spring.

    The A5 system can be used on all direct impingement systems of any gas system length, and also reduces cyclic rate on short-barreled rifles and maintains a much more consistent bolt velocity and rate of fire on all current issue weapons based on the M16. With different A5 buffer weights available, the A5 system can also be used with piston systems, or over-pressured rifles.

    The Vltor A5 Kit consists of an A5 Standard Buffer, rifle-length spring, A5 receiver extension, EMOD stock, receiver end plate and castle nut. Other A5 buffer weight configurations will be available individually/separately.

    Buffer - With an AR or M16 rifle stock system, part of the rifle buffer is just 'spacer'. It's there to allow the longer rifle-length buffer tube to be used without affecting the length of travel of the bolt carrier (which is the same whether a rifle or carbine buffer system is used). Vltor saw that this extra spacer length could be eliminated while still using a standard rifle length spring, and came up with the A5 buffer. The A5 buffer is approximately the same length as a rifle buffer with the 'spacer' portion at the front removed. It is 4", versus the 3.25" of a carbine buffer. The A5 can be had in different weights, but the standard A5 weight (shown here) is about 5.3 oz (2 steel, 2 tungsten weights), and matches the same carrier velocity as the A4 configuration. Instead of a carbine spring, the standard rifle-length buffer spring is used. The A5 H1 buffer has 3 tungsten, 1 steel and the A5 H2 buffer has 4 tungsten weights.

    The use of a rifle spring provides consistency that the carbine-length spring does not. It was found that the more coils that a spring has, the more consistent the spring rate upon each compression.

    Receiver Extension - Just as the A5 buffer is 3/4" longer than the carbine buffer, the Vltor A5 receiver extension is 3/4" longer, making it 8" long, vs. 7.25" for a carbine tube. The A5 receiver extension has 7 positions and was designed to be used with Vltor's EMOD stock. Any mil-spec carbine stock can be used with the A5 receiver, but the additional length means that standard carbine stocks won't close all the way, as illustrated in the photo with the IMOD below on the right. For me, it's a non-issue as I usually shoot with the stock in that position or another notch out.

    Shooting with the A5 system is almost identical to shooting a standard rifle-length stock/recoil system, except that you have a collapsible stock. I tried out the A5 with a few different uppers, and felt recoil is a bit softer than with a carbine system. I have a few hundred rounds using the A5 so far (with no issues), and one carbine system upper I had which was a bit finicky with a regular buffer worked 100% with the A5 kit. I'm just a very limited statistical sample of one, but A5 kit-configured weapons have gone through extensive testing (over 70,000 rounds) so far with very promising results. It has also been tested on the HK 416 with 10.5" and 14.5" barrels and shown that the cyclic rate is decreased for both barrel lengths substantially in unsuppressed and suppresed configurations. "

  2. #22
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    Thanks for clarifying that MM. So if you were using a CTR, Imod, or other collapsible stock, you would not be able to collapse it all the way- it would stick out a wee bit, while the Emod would make contact with the castle nut.

    I don't know of many guys who shoot their carbines with the stock fully collapsed. Store and transport, yes.

    Now the question is what happens when you're using a rifle spring and buffer on a 16" midlength gas system (which seems to be the most popular configuration on this forum). Is it going to short stroke with some ammo? I read Vltor's HK416 report and it was very impressive. If a 10" 416 ran with the A5, I guess a midlength 14.5 or 16" should, right?
    Last edited by Boss Hogg; 06-14-10 at 07:18.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss Hogg View Post
    Now the question is what happens when you're using a rifle spring and buffer on a 16" midlength gas system (which seems to be the most popular configuration on this forum). Is it going to short stroke with some ammo?
    it's designed to work with any length gas system. i've been using it on a 16" midlength, and it worked with wolf (which is typically a bit weak).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
    it's designed to work with any length gas system. i've been using it on a 16" midlength, and it worked with wolf (which is typically a bit weak).
    I understand this is designed to work with any length gas system, but according to your review, the purpose is to improve reliability in full auto...would there be any advantage to changing to this system from carbine buffer system in semis?

  5. #25
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    Will the A5 receiver extension + internals soon be offered as a standalone option without the EMOD included?

  6. #26
    Advantage on a Middy or Carbine gas system will be smoother shooting set up.
    Also add a bit of accuracy with a more consistant carrier velocity.
    Last edited by BravoCompanyUSA; 06-14-10 at 13:08.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Will the A5 receiver extension + internals soon be offered as a standalone option without the EMOD included?
    At this time it will just be a complete stock it. There will be additonal buffer weight options coming this summer.
    .


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    Please visit http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/gunfighters





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  8. #28
    mm,
    Awesome review. Thanks for posting.
    .


    For the Worlds Best Gunfighter Training
    Please visit http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/gunfighters





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  9. #29
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    This stock looks very promising.
    SSG Jimmy Ide- KIA 28 Aug 10, Hyderabad, AFG

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  10. #30
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    Stupidity check - an ACS would also go up to flush, am I correct?

    These would still work quite well with a CTR, MOE, SOPMOD or similar stock and an ASAP, DD, Noveske or IKH SLAP plate, or alternatively TROY adaptor from the looks of it too.
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