"I Ain't Need No Trainin', Boy!" or, The Face of Stupid

[QuietShootr]

I know we're not supposed to do this, but it is potentially so instructive I hope we can keep it on track.

There is currently a thread on TOS about why people don't train. THIS is one of the answers:

Posted: Today 12:04:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Today 12:05:32 AM EDT by A_Free_Man]
Originally Posted By Danj:
It always boggles my mind.

I have a very small "collection" of guns. I am more of a shooter than a collector. It never fails whenever I try to organize a training courses as the host the gun owners I know who have thousands upon thousands of dollars in firearms won't sign up for a simple two day class. On a couple of occasions when I couldn't make classes I already paid for I offered my spot free of charge to two shooters who had never received ANY formal firearms training. They won't take up my offer and this was around two hundred dollars of free training. Just recently I had a "disagreement" with a member of my gun club. He decided and told me that because he was older than me and in his words "has been shooting for longer than I had been alive" that he knew everything about firearms and surely more than me. I told him he should sign up for a class I was organizing cause he might learn something. He told me that he never took any formal training and didn't need any training.

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Son, let me explain this to you. How old are you? Well, I've been around longer than you have. I've been shooting since about age 7. I was taught by all my relatives back when it was common to always carry a gun. My GRANDMOTHER carried a pistol in her dress pocket. My Dad rode a horse to school, and had a Winchester 1873 in the saddle scabbard. The teacher didn't have a fit over it... it was his aunt.

It was common, especially during hunting season, to see men carry guns openly in holsters, even sitting in a cafe having a bite before heading out.

Growing up we had to clean the reloading equipment off the kitchen table to eat dinner. My parents were both shooters, and did quite well busting up cases and cases of clays out back, competing on the weekends.

I don't really think there's much I could learn in a class from anyone I've ever met.

Local LEO's call ME for advice on firearms.

No, I don't think I need a class.

THIS is the kind of mud-stupid you can't fix. And this is what I want to keep as far away from here as geographically possible.

[ForTehNguyen]

Old people set in their ways

[ralph]

There is really nothing one can say...It's pretty clear this person has his mind made up...etched in stone would be a better term... I'm fortunate that I'm able to take the classes that Grant is teaching...I've already picked up quite a bit,and it has done nothing but help me improve.(Thanks Grant) My goal is to get proficient with my carbine and pistol, I've got a long way to go,(I'm 55) But I'm trying to learn, something that the person in question above, is clearly unwilling to do.. There is no sense wasting time with someone like that, anywhere you run into them, They've already made their mind up, They "don't need no trainin"..

[Hersh]

Yeah I don't think that just because someone is raised aroung guns that they gain operational skill through osmosis. Most folks I know that say they've "been shooting for years" mean that they occasionally go out and shoot beer cans off a stump and have been doing so since they were kids. Imho, casual shooting doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills to "run the gun."

There are a couple of members at my gun club that have been to Pat Rogers and others classes over the years and I'm very fortunate that they're willing to host informal training days and pass on their knowledge.

Oh yeah, the excuse for not training that I hear the most:
"I don't want to burn up that much ammo."

[Nathan_Bell]

I have a few friends who feel that way. They are "good shots" and always fill their tag limits during deer season so why learn more?
Took one to a LAV class. He still cusses me, because it showed him all the things he didn't know that he didn't know. Bit of a world upsetter for a 50 YO guy. He has gotten it and he does as much as his budget and time allows to practice. A couple others still don't get it.

I think there are basically two types of these folks.
The group of folks like Willy, who didn't realize how much out there that he didn't know that he didn't know. The ignorant, not using in an insulting manner, in other words.
The other group has a clue that there is a lot out there that they do not know and they cannot stand the thought of being made to feel like a newbie again as they learn that shooting a groundhog at 300 yards with a 22.250 or shooting a gong at 50 yards with a 45lc has very little to do with gunfighting. They are afraid to learn that a lot of what the "know" to be right will get them and their loved ones dead should their ideas of how to behave in a gunfight are ever tested for real. So they simply bluster and bluff their way along convinced that they will "rise to the occasion" The willfully ignorant folks, yes this is an insult btw, in other words.

[Gutshot John]

God help me if I ever decide I can't learn something new.

I hope he never has to find out the hard way how wrong he is.

That said it's not my problem what some dipshit fudd thinks.

Darwin works.

[RogerinTPA]

I never will see why anyone would approach life without an open mind and willing to learn, especially where firearms are concerned. The fact remains, most firearms owners are gun collectors due to a variety of reasons: funds not available, arrogance, criticism from self proclaimed "experts", don't want to be showed up/look stupid in front of peers...whatever. Despite the older folks mentality towards firearms training, overall, for the most part, arfcom is a mall ninja breeding ground/home base/wannabe/poser central.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The gentleman in question is a closed minded fool.

Byron Ferguson is the greatest archer alive today. He travels the world as an exibition shooter. He also instructs at a school he hosts twice a year. Mr. Ferguson is quoated on the History Channel's More Extreme Marksman as stating that he is open minded because learning never ends. No one knows everything not even the best in the world.

[C4IGrant]

There is really nothing one can say...It's pretty clear this person has his mind made up...etched in stone would be a better term... I'm fortunate that I'm able to take the classes that Grant is teaching...I've already picked up quite a bit,and it has done nothing but help me improve.(Thanks Grant) My goal is to get proficient with my carbine and pistol, I've got a long way to go,(I'm 55) But I'm trying to learn, something that the person in question above, is clearly unwilling to do.. There is no sense wasting time with someone like that, anywhere you run into them, They've already made their mind up, They "don't need no trainin"..

Thanks Ralph.

In the local training we do (Pistol and Carbine), the club has about 900+ members. In most cases, we get about 20 shooters from the club and 4 that are none members.

The most "tactical"/proficient shooter in the club attends everyone of my classes (which are free by the way). So what are the other 880 members doing???? Do they know more than me and just don't need defensive training? Doubt it.

I do have a couple older gentlemen in the pistol classes (70's) that are eager to learn and talk with me. I respect that they have been shooting for longer than I have been alive and handle them differently than I do some of the others. They are set in their ways, but will try new things.

As I have posted several times on this forum, Men believe that from birth they can do three things well. They are:

1. Drive
2. Screw
3. Shoot

We all know that we don't do any of them well without lots of practice.



C4

[LOKNLOD]

Personally, I don't think it's worth being upset over, guys.

As limited as training availability can be sometimes, just be glad he's not filling a spot in classes, only to end up to arguing with the instructor and wasting training time.