Primary Arms Red Dot?

[Hmac]

This isn't a Arfcom or Glocktalk...

Hmm...

[orionz06]

If you go through all the threads about them, NO ONE is claiming they are a replacement or an equivalent to an aimpoint, but that ends up being why the threads get all out of hand.

The guy that runs PA will also openly tell people not to buy his product if an Aimpoint is what is needed. That deserves some respect.

[MassMark]

At least we don't have post after post on "intellectual theft" this time. The reality is, for range use, the PA seems to be just the ticket. Ultimately, if one chooses to trust their defense to electronics - any electronics, then hopefully their skills translate to irons as well, because even the best electronics can fail. It happens...While I appreciate the nuances of the higher end, there is some merit to having an optic that fits in the budget of those who cannot, or will not shell out for an Aimpoint. I don't think anyone is advocating that the PA is a replacement for an Aimpoint, but God forbid anyone actually buys, uses and enjoys it...

I found this lighthearted review and torture test on another site. In between the silliness, it seems the PA holds up to at least being cooked with fish sticks...

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?t=67132=Primary+Arms

[streck]

At least we don't have post after post on "intellectual theft" this time. The reality is, for range use, the PA seems to be just the ticket. Ultimately, if one chooses to trust their defense to electronics - any electronics, then hopefully their skills translate to irons as well, because even the best electronics can fail. It happens...While I appreciate the nuances of the higher end, there is some merit to having an optic that fits in the budget of those who cannot, or will not shell out for an Aimpoint. I don't think anyone is advocating that the PA is a replacement for an Aimpoint, but God forbid anyone actually buys, uses and enjoys it...

This is truth.

And I am an admitted fan of Primary Arms gear for range use.

[MassMark]

This is truth.

And I am an admitted fan of Primary Arms gear for range use.

Yup - and why not? In fact, one could get the impression around here that the engineering behind an optic like an Aimpoint, Eotech, or Trijicon is akin to the secret world of nuclear fission. In reality, it's a design, tube, glass, electronics, engineering. There may indeed come a day, (if it's not already here), when a company like Primary Arms, Vortex, Leatherwood, Millett, et al, will produce and market an optic of equal durability and reliability at a fraction of the cost. To think this impossible is really shortsighted...

[m4brian]

And... I would not put it past the Chinese. While my dad's buddy, and RCA engineer had HORROR stories about their manufacturing QC and management from the 70s, things have improved.

I went to grad school with physicists from the PRC and Taiwan. They could not physically make an algebra or trig mistake - impossible. They are smart and disciplined. They absolutely admired our ability on the lab bench, but we admired their brilliance and dogged discipline. I would NOT poopoo their ability to copy the crap out of our optics and eventually get it right. And I welcome a $100 sight I can afford while paying for kids school, and ammo.

[Alaskapopo]

Let me try to help you.

The problem with sophisticated optics is getting them to stand up to abuse. The problem with the ones at Primary Arms is that ruggedness and quality control are the things they sacrifice in order to sell them so cheap. Add in the cheap labor used to make them and you have a functional optic that's 1/4 the price of the optic it's copying. Because of the reliability issue, it's not an optic you'd want to bet your life on, and the liklihood of one of them standing up to years of .223 recoil is pretty low. Might be serviceable for casual and infrequent use at the range.

Primary arms has a reputation for pretty good customer service AFAIK.

I agree, the vBulletin search function has always been a little problematic. Searching the site through Google, as irishluck pointed out, is generally a more accurate way to search most vBulletin discussion forums.

I doubt they will have an issue with .223 recoil (kind of a oxy moron). The .223 is very easy on optics. Now if you were saying a 12 gauge or a .308 semi auto you might have a point. I like Primary Arms micro red dots for what they are. A in expensive sight for use as a back up optic or as a main optic on a training rifle. The ones I have used so far have held up and have performed well. Are they as good as my T1 no. But they are not advertized as such. Primary Arms is also always improving their products. The owner is not advertising these as optics for duty guns. I appreciate the owners honesty and his efforts in producting a good optic for the money for fun guns.
Pat

[mattj]

FWIW, I threw a PA micro on my FAL and have shot in in several USTRA matches (think USPSA but with rifle) with it... that's somewhere around 500 rounds now of run-and-gun 7.62 with no issues.

[m4brian]

My guess is that if your gun is cowitnessed, this would be fine for everything except deployed combat. If your TTP relies completely on an optic, unless you are a sniper, you shouldn't be doing what you are doing. So... I may eventually get one of these, and put the other money in ammo, etc.

As per the review done ealier in the thread, do they now have a version which IS waterproof. But, it is interesting that it ran FINE even after getting waterlogged.