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Thread: Daniel Defense barrels without barrel nuts?

  1. #11
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    Thanks for the responses. What started out as a small gripe about DD barrels is really not the problem I am trying to solve. I have tried to explain this in other posts, and have always gotten the feeling that people do not understand what I am trying to do. The problem is not technical; it is legal and economic. Let me start again.

    I live in a ban state. I teach various safety classes in my “off time” every week. Out of the 20-30 persons in the classes, about four to six want to buy an AR. When I explain what it takes to get a “preban” AR, most balk due to the cost, which is upwards on $2000 due to the purchase of a preban lower (often a complete Colt H-Bar) and the purchase of an upper, rear sight, and BCG to go with it. Even so, post-ban compliant ARs cost about $950 + with BS pinned stocks and no muzzle device, or, a really cheap permanently attached one.

    What I want to do is put together a product that will be superior to the “post-ban” offerings at a cheaper price.

    Anyone in a free state can put together a carbine for about $700-750 without breaking a sweat. My problem is that post-ban barrels cost more, and, barrels with threads must have a muzzle device permanently attached. Until I can figure out a better way, such device and attachment will cost about $75-$150, depending on the device. Just now I am looking at some of the better brakes, including the Troy and some PWS models.

    Licensing and other issues are in the future. I am trying to create a prototype. Even in prototype stage, I will consider this project a failure if I can not do it for $850.
    Last edited by Amicus; 07-04-10 at 01:10.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  2. #12
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    Then you must realize that griping about it hear won't solve your problem.

    What will solve your problem is to put together a plan and present it to DD or other manufacturer to convince them there is a niche market not being exploited. You may even get them to sponsor your project.

    Tell them you feel if they would offer parts that would allow those in the Occupied Territories East to build a Hearth & Home carbine for under $900 that they would sell.

    Have you called DD to see if they can offer the barrel in the configuration you want? If they do and don't catalog it, it might be something you could take advantage of.

    As for myself, it's no big deal to drift the pins on the FSB. Annoying, but no biggie. Maybe what you want is to see if you can get the barrel with the FSB and pins not installed
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-04-10 at 10:31.

  3. #13
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    Amicus,

    The flip side of the coin is this. Why should I have to pay for a barrel nut when I'm going to remove it and use a FF rail? Why not let me have the cheaper option?
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  4. #14
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    I don't think the FSB is actually "installed"--just loosely put together with the pin holes already drilled.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amicus View Post
    Thanks for the responses. What started out as a small gripe about DD barrels is really not the problem I am trying to solve. I have tried to explain this in other posts, and have always gotten the feeling that people do not understand what I am trying to do. The problem is not technical; it is legal and economic. Let me start again.

    What I want to do is put together a product that will be superior to the “post-ban” offerings at a cheaper price.

    Anyone in a free state can put together a carbine for about $700-750 without breaking a sweat. My problem is that post-ban barrels cost more, and, barrels with threads must have a muzzle device permanently attached.

    Licensing and other issues are in the future. I am trying to create a prototype. Even in prototype stage, I will consider this project a failure if I can not do it for $850.
    Amicus,

    I understand what you are saying but tend to disagree with your statement about cost. I regularly put together complete carbines for friends. Without going the untra el cheapo route I generally spend between $900.00-$1000.00 on them. I do not have an FFL and order lowers for about $110.00-$130.00. They do the transfer ($15.00 here).

    I have a few internet sites that give me a discount, either .mil or LEO. After buying or building a complete upper, bolt and carrier, charging handle, MBUIS rear sight, and complete MOE package for $99.00 that's as low as I can get. LMT seems to be the cheapest route for uppers as I can only save about $20.00 building it. What I tell them is they are getting a much better quality rifle than the same dollars spent on a RRA, Bushmaster, or Armalite, to say nothing of the Model 1, Olympic, or DPMS carbine. The last one was $955.00 and included a Noveske lower, LMT complete upper, DD bolt and carrier, MBUIS, MOE kit, G&R LPK, BCM charging handle, 2 PMAGS, and a Specter sling. Sometimes I can shave a few dollars. That price included the transfer, shipping, any taxes, and a 6 pack of Amberbock!
    "The peace we have within us is most often expressed in how we treat others"

  6. #16
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    Daniel Defense sells each barrel as three separate options:

    Stripped

    With FSB but no delta ring, barrel nut or gas tube

    With FSB, Gas tube and barrel nut/delta ring assembly

    Example from DD Price Sheet: 16" 5.56mm Carbine Hammer Forged

    DD-9067 BARREL ASSY, CMV, CHF, 5.56, 1:7, 16, M4, CAR, CHROME, PHOS

    DD-10114 BARREL ASSY, CMV, CHF, 5.56, 1:7, 16, M4, CAR, CHROME, PHOS W/FSP

    DD-10104 BARREL ASSY, CMV, CHF, 5.56, 1:7, 16, M4, CAR, CHROME, PHOS W/FSP, GAS TUBE, DELTA RING ASSY
    "Fundamentals are a crutch for the talentless." -Kenny Powers

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    we need a smiley with an eyebrow raised in skepticism.

    how are you going to install the gas tube with the FSB pinned? not gonna happen on a carbine. you might get away with it on a middy, but it's still not the proper way, and you're likely to bend it.


    ETA- furthermore, i've never seen a barrel assembly come with the FSB fully pinned
    I have installed a gas tube on a carbine length barrel without removing the FSB. I see no reason why you couldn't.
    Dustin

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha-BeenGlockin View Post
    I don't think the FSB is actually "installed"--just loosely put together with the pin holes already drilled.
    This is true. You can remove them with your hand.
    Dustin

  9. #19
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    Folks:

    I just wanted to say "thanks" for all the responses. I'll try to address a few personally.

    ZuluDeltaBravo & bkb0000 & Omaha-BeenGlockin: Your explanation about how DD FSBs were closer to "partially assembled" helped me to understand about why DD would do this. Now I get it. (I stated at the beginning that I was not all that knowledgeable.)

    seb5: Thanks for giving me some info on the cost of your builds. I will have to remember to charge for beer. Also, anything I will put together must be "bare bones for the time being. BTW, since the People's Republik of Massachusetts has decreed that they may be no "kitchen table dealers" or "cellar dwellers"s, transfer rates are considered low at $30.

    perna & Madcap: That was just an example, the cost of which is too high for my build anyway. Basically, the bbl could cost no more than about $230 to make it work.

    Stickman & MistWolf: Good points (and I was just griping), but, if I can't complain here, where could I?

    Anyway, my thanks for taking the time to inform me. I've got a lot of work to do to put this thing together and meet my challenge ($750 to $850 with fairly good, if not diamond-studded parts). The scary thing is, with BCM's price drops on some uppers, I could get just about exactly what I wanted for $629 + shipping and only have the lower to worry about. It's close, but not quite there.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amicus View Post
    ..Stickman & MistWolf: Good points (and I was just griping), but, if I can't complain here, where could I? ...
    Heheheh! Point well taken. Let us know how the carbine turns out. Remember, and a range report

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