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Thread: Probelms with Bushmaster M-4, any suggestions??

  1. #31
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    Normally this forum is able to disagree on matters like gentlemen. I am one of the anti BM group for objective reasons only. I think that if you want/like one then go for it. But please don't be a jerk about any stance you take here.

    How about some moderator action on this mess?

  2. #32
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    Should be taken care of shortly. I notified one that has had to scold me in the past but is a fair and honest person.

  3. #33
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    There is really only a few things he can do:

    Go for a new rifle with BM's customer service (I'd try this)

    Get his money back and spend it on a new rifle from someone else (Also a good option)

    Or try to remedy the problem using help from this site (This would be my least preffered option, it would be much better to get another BM or a different AR that just works right out of the box.)

    Everything else that is going on in this thread is the usual "BM isn't up to par with Colt" and "You just drink the kool-aid" stuff. It honestly has no place here. The guy is simply asking for help and different options he can take.

  4. #34
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    In addition to gotm4's suggestions from pg 1 you might want to replace the extractor spring with a HD version and/or add an O-ring. You might be experiencing a hitch in extraction from tired springs. Also, visually inspect the extractor hook and make sure there's no chips or rounding going on. You want to make sure the extractor is getting a good grip on the rim.

    Also want to echo the checks for your mags. make sure you have good followers, good springs, etc. If you have a GI 20 rounder, try that. Those run great for me.

  5. #35
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    jmart- his rounds aren't feeding. Unless I'm missing something, that's the only problem.

    It sounds like the problem my buddy had with his CMMG barrel. It was just junk until it was fixed.

    I have nothing against BM. I just know that well respected people AND people who see hundreds of rifles go through hundreds of thousands of rounds know which rifles are problems and which aren't. It shouldn't always be brought up and I don't remember how it was brought up here. But when it is, we don't need the one guy with one working BM to get so bent out of shape.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkaper View Post
    I have 3 BM's and 1 KOOL-AID (COLT)

    My very first BM has around 8000 rounds through it.

    My second one is near the same.

    My newest one which is a Patrolman's Carbine is nearing 1200.

    My 6920 which was bought a month after the Patrolman's is close to 600.

    No tacticool training courses.

    AND yes I read that thread, a lot of the crap that goes around the internet is hype, regardless to whether or not its this site or the other one. BIAS OPINION! It mainly depends on who is talking. If you get a group of ArmaLite lovers, of course everything else to them is going to be crap. Its the same way with car stereos, tv's, and any other thing on the market.

    I never said that BM doesn't have quality issues. But I will be damned if Colt and everyone else doesn't either.

    I don't see where some tactical course is going to prove that BM is crap? Because someone else says so? My stay in the Marine Corp 3/7 showed me that Colt has their fair share of issue's too. Even my background doesn't make it so just because I say I seen it and have experienced it.

    Bottom line... I am not hear to argue with you or anyone else for that matter, this guy wants to know what he can do to get his gun up and running. That what I am trying to help him with. AND the "computer chair warrior" crap gets really old.
    8K is a respectable round count, but not if it is via slow bench fire. The other weapon has a low round count. So you have two weapons with a decent round count, but none of them have been pushed like they would in a carbine class. Just out curiosity, how old are the BM's with 8K through them?

    Instructors such as Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers see HUNDREDS of BM's a year in training classes. You have owned three. See the difference? You have had VERY limited experience compared with them. They based their opinion on the hundreds that they see. Yours is on three.

    In a three to five day training class, you will shoot around 400-500rds a day. Normal round count for most AR shooters is 100-200rds a month. The fire rate is also pretty aggressive in training class. Now take 3-4 of these types of classes a year and see how your AR does. In just about every carbine class I have been in, a BM has gone down do to a cheap part breaking (usually their bolt). So based on the number of them that I see go down, broken ones coming into my shop for repair and my knowledge of where a lot of their parts come from, they are junk.

    There is no question that every AR manufacturer puts out a lemon. What you have to look at is the law of averages. If we take 100 BM's against 100 LMT's or Colt's, which ones would last the longest? I don't know about you, but the company that follows the TDP and uses better parts would be my choice. Remember, if your not following the mil-standard, then what spec are you following? Your own spec that allows you to use cheaper parts or the Govt's spec that says parts have to meet a defined standard?

    Think of Pat, Larry and M4C as the "No Spin Zone." There was no one in that thread that was biased. What they did see was tons of experience. If you want biased opinions, go onto the "bubble gum" forums. There you get a lot of opinions with little experience to back it up.

    As far as "armchair commando's", your on the wrong forum if you think there are a lot on here. This is a technical forum full of real world shooters. It is also has some of the best Civy shooters around that actively train with some of the best instructors in the country.

    There are very few window lickers to be found on here.



    C4

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkaper View Post
    Good one! Man you guys are on it here! The forumites have wasted so much time on the internet, they can now tell how smart someone is by how they type.

    Give this guy a discount too. OR just send him a Colt shirt so he can act like he can afford one.
    What I think you have failed to realize is that the members here don't dislike BM because of what they have read on the errornet. They dislike BM's because they have seen them go down time and time again in either carbine classes or have owned one that was garbage.

    You have stumbled onto a forum of serious minded shooters that hold their AR's and the manufacturers that build them to a higher standard as they shoot and train a lot. This is NOT the norm on most of the other AR based forums.

    There are a good number of Colt owners on here, but there are even more that do not care for the company. I personally don't own a single Colt AR and most likely never will. I much prefer to build my own so that I know exactly what each and every part is. So your belief that everyone on here owns a Colt and hates all other manufacturers simply isn't true.

    AR's are prone to malfunctions just like the 1911 is. They are some things that one can do however to make this platform more reliable. Buying an AR where the majority of the parts are the cheapest in the land coupled with poor QC and assembling will not give you a quality fighting weapon.

    Quality parts are expensive. BM's are cheap. See the connection?


    C4

  8. #38
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    Wow. I came over here to escape the bickering and maybe interact with a more serious crowd.
    “A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.” -Lao Tzu


    http://quibphotography.com/

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quib View Post
    Wow. I came over here to escape the bickering and maybe interact with a more serious crowd.
    There will always be disagreements on any forum. The difference is that we don't let folks make it personal and or tell each other to "F" off.

    On other forums, you see debates about which weapon is the best for underwater bump firing. This forum doesn't have that problem.


    C4

  10. #40
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    Sorry Quib. It's rare to see this around here. I've only seen this type of shit in a few threads and I've always been at fault for helping feed the fire (or Rob_S has ) so it's not very common.

    Don't be dissuaded from posting. I always thought your posts "over there" were pretty good and would be happy to be able to see your guns over here.

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