Originally Posted by RWBlue
If only that were true.
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If only that were true.
NOT in training for combat deployment.
Member
As for optics, try a Kobra sight on your AK.
In typical Sov fashion it is not "elegant" but it is brutally tough. Plus the 4 different reticles are extremely useful.
On the negative side it is heavy and the "chin-weld" sucks.
You can also get a railed gastube to put an Aimpoint or Eotech on, but I would worry about the extreme heat.
Personally, I find the post and notch sights to actually be MORE accurate for me than the aperture sights on the M4. I grew up with a .22 that I shot constantly and the AK sights are pretty much just like them. On the downside, they are considerably slower in my hands.
YMMV,
Disconnector
Member
Buy a 5.45 and forget about recoil all together.
In a true "survival" situation, the 7.62 would be a more useful hunting tool though. 30 rounds of 30-30 performance is a useful thing.
Disconnector
Yes, the AK sights DO suck.
Fortunately, there are manufacturers like Ultimak who have solved this weakness with a great way to mount a red dot in a scout configuration.
Member
No no. Not just the sights. Everything sucks about the AK except for it's reputation as a gun that will go bang every time. Mag changes are slower, the ergonomics are nearly non-existant, materials used are often of poor quality, fit and finish....but it goes bang*.
I don't like my AKs. But I know how to run them.
*unless it's an SLR-106
Principles matter.
Senior Member
Perhaps a review of AK terminal performance would be useful:
The 5.45 x 39 mm Russian M74 53 gr FMJ boat-tailed bullet has a copper-plated steel jacket surrounding an unhardened steel core and a small 5 mm long empty air-space under the bullet nose. Its typical muzzle velocity is 3066 f/s. In contrast to the older 7.62 x 39 mm Russian M43 Type PS which it replaced, the 5.45 x 39 mm M74 53 gr FMJ commonly exhibits very early yaw in tissue, at approximately 2.75", but no deformation or fragmentation. In both uncomplicated extremity and torso wounds, the very early yaw allows the bullet to travel sideways through the body, increasing permanent tissue destruction and temporary cavitation effects. A small punctate entrance wound is present and the exit wound may be punctate, oblong, or stellate depending on the bullet yaw angle on exit. Penetration is approximately 21.6”. 5.45 x 39 mm M74 is a lot like an early yawing 5.56 mm bullet that does not fragment--for example M995, but without the AP capability. Well designed fragmenting 5.56 mm bullets, like the Hornady 75 gr or Nosler 77 gr OTM’s, that consistently offer early upset in tissue are superior to 5.45 x 39 mm. I am unaware of any good terminal ballistic testing on commercial 5.45 x 39 mm loads.
In discussing 7.62x39 mm FMJ, the question is always which one, as their characteristics are highly variable.
In fact, there is a bit of a controversy brewing in some of the AAR’s coming in from OCONUS on the effectiveness of 7.62 x 39 mm ammunition. Initially, this appears somewhat strange, as there may be more forensic data available regarding wounds caused by the Russian 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ than for any other rifle cartridge. The original 7.62 x 39 mm Russian M43 Type PS 120.5 gr FMJ boat-tail bullet has a copper-plated steel jacket covering a large steel core and a typical muzzle velocity of 2340 f/s. In tissue, it typically travels approximately 9.8 to 10.6" point forward before beginning significant yaw. Most uncomplicated wounds of the torso and extremities have small punctate entrance and exit wounds and exhibit minimal internal tissue disruption since the bullet does not deform or fragment and usually exits before yaw occurs. Total penetration is around 29.1”. WDMET (Wound Data and Munitions Effectiveness Team) collected extensive forensic data on over 700 7.62 x 39 mm gunshot wounds during the Viet Nam war. The predominant feature of this cartridge is the MINIMAL amount of damage it produces in soft tissue wounds, on par with FMJ handgun wounds such as those produced by 9 mm M882 ball. We also have extensive law enforcement data, as this cartridge has been used extensively in illicit activity. For example, in the 17 January 1988 Stockton school shooting, 30 of 35 kids who were shot lived. Of the five that died, all were shot in critical structure--head, heart, spine, aorta and none had damage to any organ not directly hit by a bullet.
However, not all 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ bullets are of the original steel core construction. Significantly increased tissue damage is produced by the early yaw seen with several 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ lead core bullets, including:
-- Yugoslavian M67 124 gr FMJ, flat based, copper-jacketed, lead core bullet which travels only 3.5" in tissue before yawing
-- Chinese (PRC) 7.62 x 39 mm 123 gr FMJ, copper-jacketed, lead core bullets which begin their yaw after only 2 to 2.5" of travel in tissue.
-- Czech and several types of Western commercially produced lead core 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ yaw within the first 2 to 3 inches of travel in tissue.
In both uncomplicated extremity and torso wounds, the very early yaw of these lead core 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ bullets allow the projectiles to travel sideways through the body, substantially increasing permanent tissue destruction and temporary cavitation effects compared to the standard 7.62 x 39 mm Russian M43 Type PS 120.5 gr FMJ. These early yawing lead core 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ bullets cause wounds very similar to the 5.45 x 39 mm Russian M74 53 gr FMJ bullets discussed above, however, the larger size of the 7.62 x 39 mm bullets results in a bigger permanent cavity compared to 5.45 x 39 mm bullets.
The differences in terminal effects seen in recent combat with 7.62 x 39 mm FMJ wounds can likely be explained by the different terminal effects caused by the various types of FMJ construction.
When one moves to a expanding/fragmenting design in 7.62 x 39 mm, terminal performance is significantly enhanced. The best 7.62 x 39 mm loads we have tested to date are the Winchester 123 gr JSP (X76239) and the Lapua 125 gr JSP. Out of a 16” barrel they perform somewhat like lightweight .30-30 loads:
Lap 125 gr JSP
Bare Gelatin: vel=2316 f/s, pen=17.3”, RD=.62”, RL=.43”, RW=122.6 gr
Car Windshield: vel=2323 f/s, pen=14.8”, RD=.60”, RL=.40”, RW=110.6 gr
Win 123 gr JSP
Bare Gel: vel=2253 f/s, pen=14.4”, rd=0.56”, rw=90.1gr
Pretty much the same results when going through car windshields.
Of note, most of the “cheap” Russian JHP/JSP ammunition offers poor terminal performance. The one that seems to work is the 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant; 8M3 bullet); from a 16” AKMS the data is:
BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr"
Because of the larger permanent cavity and greater bullet mass, the 7.62 x 39 mm JSP’s offer somewhat better performance than the .223 bonded JSP’s, like the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw used in the Federal Tactical loads. These 7.62 x 39 mm JSP loads are a good choice for use against car windows and should also be outstanding for hunting deer and other similar size game.
In a CQB setting, the expanding 7.62 x 39 mm bullets tend to retain their mass and are very likely to exit target. As long as a 5.56 mm FMJ or OTM upset in tissue, they are unlikely to exit the torso; likewise, 6.8 mm TMJ, OTM and PT will fragment and are unlikely to exit the torso. All will work, although I would prefer the 6.8 mm for this settting. While 7.62 x 39 mm has the potential to offer good terminal performance when using well engineered ammunition and it offers better intermediate barrier penetration than 5.56 mm, 6.8 mm is generally more accurate, flatter shooting, longer ranged, and demonstrates better terminal performance than all 5.45 x 39 mm, 5.56 mm and 7.62 x 39 mm.
Senior Member
Lots of great info and advice here Opie.
As far as the safety, it does what it was designed to do, it keeps crap out of the action when on safe, and it can be manipulated by some Soviet conscript stationed in Siberia wearing mittens....
But, yes, it does suck for fast manipulation. The Blackjack SWIFT levers are great, and I can work them as fast as I can an AR safety, with my hand on the pistol grip.
GotM4 has one on his SLR-106FR:
The rear sights might hinder guys who grew up shooting apeture style sights, but I grew up shooting AK's, it's just what you're used to. If you put an UltiMak gas tube on your rifle you can then mount a decent optic.
If you thread the muzzle for a 14/1mm LH thread, you can install an AK-74 style brake, but one designed for 7.62mm projectiles, and it will significantly cut down on your reaction time and felt recoil.
Again, it's all what you're used to. Get some more trigger time on the rifle and it might grow on you.
Employee of colonialshooting.com
Member
Hey Templar,
What's a decent '74 type brake for a 7.62mm? Some of them look kinda junky in the pics I've seen on the net. I'm debating between a M16A1 FS or a '74 type brake on my SAR-1 - Any suggestions?
thanks.
Senior Member
You'll need this adapter to go from 14/1mmLH threads to a 24mm RH thread of the '74....
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.ph...cat=272&page=1
And then you can use the brake/fh that Noveske based/ripped off from the Bulgarians.....
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.ph...cat=289&page=1
Chris Butler makes a clone of the Russian 7.62x39mm AK-103 brake that is sold through RPB....
http://www.ak-103.com/parts.html
Hope that helps.
Employee of colonialshooting.com
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