Former Army officer, West Point&Duke grad shot by police

Heard and acknowledged, M4arc.

I'm not an LEO but I believe that you're way off base! I highly doubt the dispatcher is just making shit up as she goes. She's simply passing on information.

My criticism is that, regardless of the source, it's information that is highly speculative and serves no constructive purpose in being relayed. I'd give 10 to 1 odds it was the manager on the phone (the "green beret who's allowed to carry a 413") with the dispatcher producing the bullshit conjecture, but I don't consider it "professional" that she saw fit to relay the manager's totally unfounded speculations verbatim.

And it's SOP for the Police to hold the EMTs at a safe distance until the scene is safe. Same goes for FD in some instances.

I'm well aware of this. My criticism isn't that they were held back until the incident was over, my criticism was that after the shooting stopped everyone seemed more concerned with lining up witnesses than letting the EMTs in. It was only after an officer on the scene reminded dispatch/cp to send the EMTs in that they were sent. Dispatch and/or the Scene Commander should've sent them in the second the Officers verified the situation was secure.

Originally Posted by ChicagoTex

My criticism is that, regardless of the source, it's information that is highly speculative and serves no constructive purpose in being relayed. I'd give 10 to 1 odds it was the manager on the phone (the "green beret who's allowed to carry a 413") with the dispatcher producing the bullshit conjecture, but I don't consider it "professional" that she saw fit to relay the manager's totally unfounded speculations verbatim.

I'm well aware of this. My criticism isn't that they were held back until the incident was over, my criticism was that after the shooting stopped everyone seemed more concerned with lining up witnesses than letting the EMTs in. It was only after an officer on the scene reminded dispatch/cp to send the EMTs in that they were sent. Dispatch and/or the Scene Commander should've sent them in the second the Officers verified the situation was secure.

I highly, highly doubt the dispatch added any bullshit to the reports coming in. They aren't at the scene and only relay what is coming in. I agree the manager, or whoever was on the phone, was exaggerating or adding "bullshit conjecture" but they were probably panicking and blowing it way out of proportion because they were afraid. I don’t believe they did it intentionally but still…to blame it on the dispatcher is ridiculous. It's there job to take the info that they're given and pass it on.

You’re assuming they have some sort of agenda and somehow try to affect the outcome of a situation. Blaming the dispatch, the officers or even the guy is a bit premature. It sounds like a series of bad events and decisions that ended up turning south on everyone. You're a good guy so I know you're not just trying to stir the pot. Seriously, I would be shocked if dispatchers add shit to the reports coming in.

However, I did have one thought while typing this reply: what if Costco is dragging their feet on the video because it will make them, the manager and store employees look bad???

There's another rabbit hole we could go down!

You’re assuming they have some sort of agenda and somehow try to affect the outcome of a situation. Come on dude. You're a good guy so I know you're not just trying to stir the pot. Seriously, I would be shocked if dispatchers add shit to the reports coming in.

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I'm not claiming the dispatcher (or anyone else involved) had any agenda, just suggesting that some filtering of what she was being told to what she was telling officers directly may have been warranted. It is not the job of dispatch to relay every single thing they're told, it is the job of dispatch to ascertain necessary information for safe and appropriate dispatch.

I'm really not trying to stir things up, I'm just saying that LVMPD's position that the recordings demonstrate utmost professionalism in their (including the dispatcher's) handling of the incident seems questionable to me, and citing a few reasons why.

Originally Posted by M4arc

However, I did have one thought while typing this reply: what if Costco is dragging their feet on the video because it will make them, the manager and store employees look bad???

There's another rabbit hole we could go down!

We don't need video evidence to prove this. They have already made themselves look bad in the public eye. I think more people blame them than the LEO.

I truly believe that the dispatcher was just relaying what information was given' to her by the caller.

Originally Posted by ChicagoTex

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I'm not claiming the dispatcher (or anyone else involved) had any agenda, just suggesting that some filtering of what she was being told to what she was telling officers directly may have been warranted. It is not the job of dispatch to relay every single thing they're told, it is the job of dispatch to ascertain necessary information for safe and appropriate dispatch.

How is the dispatcher to know what is "necessary" and what isnt? Speaking as a LEO; a constant flow of info is a good thing to have. It is much better to have too much info than not enough when rolling into a situation that might involve an armed subject. Holding back info does nothing but get people injured.

I'm really not trying to stir things up, I'm just saying that LVMPD's position that the recordings demonstrate utmost professionalism in their (including the dispatcher's) handling of the incident seems questionable to me, and citing a few reasons why.

I saw a transcript of the radio traffic from that day and things seem to have gone pretty smooth on the commo front IMO

have to agree that it's highly unlikely dispatch embellished or relayed data they felt needed to be modified. I've never heard any dispatch operator do that. My money is on the call from the store that jacked everyone up beyond what the situation actually was. Bottom line is that someone died in a situation where i don't think it was necessary. Hopefully no one will mess with the tapes and they will let the full info be released.

Originally Posted by ChicagoTex

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I'm not claiming the dispatcher (or anyone else involved) had any agenda, just suggesting that some filtering of what she was being told to what she was telling officers directly may have been warranted. It is not the job of dispatch to relay every single thing they're told, it is the job of dispatch to ascertain necessary information for safe and appropriate dispatch.

I'm really not trying to stir things up, I'm just saying that LVMPD's position that the recordings demonstrate utmost professionalism in their (including the dispatcher's) handling of the incident seems questionable to me, and citing a few reasons why.

What happens if dispatch filters a vital piece of info that gets an officer killed? Then what? They're not there to make decisions on what info is good or bad. They should give all info to the units responding. And yes, by saying that dispatch added “bullshit conjecture” is essentially saying they are deliberately trying to affect the outcome of a situation. Why else would they do it?

But as I said earlier I’m not an LEO so maybe I should step aside and let them answer (if they want to).

Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR

How is the dispatcher to know what is "necessary" and what isnt? Speaking as a LEO; a constant flow of info is a good thing to have. It is much better to have too much info than not enough when rolling into a situation that might involve an armed subject. Holding back info does nothing but get people injured.

I saw a transcript of the radio traffic from that day and things seem to have gone pretty smooth on the commo front IMO

Thanks NCPatrolAR.

As an IT professional it sounds to me like someone deleted the data or the drives were physically damaged. Still very possible to have it recovered.

It's odd how nothing is being released and the video is in a state of limbo.