These discussions always get interesting. After re-reading the attached article by Pat Rogers, I'm still quite comfortable with my 7" rail on a carbine length gas system. I am still satisfied with a vertical grip closer to the barrel nut than the front sight, in the configuration I learned with. I have, though, made the concession to use a stubby grip with my support thumb on the side/top of the rail. I like these quotes from the article, and I see it happen quite frequently;
We are all prisoners
of our frame of reference, and that is
as it should be—with some exceptions.......................... AND
The problems arise when proponents
of one vocation, discipline or game confuse
their wants and needs with another.
They become vociferous in their opposition
to what someone else uses, basing
their noise on nothing more than the fact
that it doesn’t suit their particular needs.
In short, they are afflicted with a form
of weapon myopia, and the less they can
see, the more they bang their drum.
I tried the AFG and quickly realized it's not for me. Sold it easily whenthey were still hard to get.
Thanks to Pat Rogers for reminding me it's OK to be me, even with my rifles.
Here is the article:
Search
For The
Perfect
Carbine
» By PATRICK A. ROGERS
A recurring question, hotly debated
in the errornet forums and
gun stores everywhere, is what
constitutes a “perfect” carbine.
EYE OF THE
BEHOLDER
Marine Corps Standard Infantry rifle is M16A4.
It is equipped with Trijicon RCO 4x telescope,
KAC rail and vertical foregrip, SureFire MU
white light and AN/PEQ-2A IR illuminator and
laser aiming sight. A4 is too long for much of
what the warrior needs to do. MOUT and CQB
are possible, but length makes it less than
optimal. RCO is an excellent telescope, but its
use indoors in low light makes it less useful
than an M4 or MK18 with red dot sight.
SWATMAG.COM S.W.A.T. » APRIL 2007 53
Opinions fluctuate widely according
to peer pressure. One
forum (populated by those with
little practical experience) believes that
only a bare bones circa 1963 gun is acceptable.
Another forum (populated by
a few with real experience) attempts to
hold in check a population that wants everything
on their carbines—especially if
the gear is new, and no matter that they
have neither an idea how nor the training
to use it.
Located in the center are those who
may actually use their carbines, be they
military, police, private citizens or competitive
shooters.
There is in fact no middle ground on
this, nor should there be! We are all prisoners
of our frame of reference, and that is
as it should be—with some exceptions.
Different jobs, vocations, competitive
disciplines and hobbies require different
hardware. Examples of this are that
an Infantryman requires a certain type
of weapon and sighting equipment. A
member of a Special Operations team
doing a Direct Action hit in search of a
High Value Target may need something
else entirely.
A cop on patrol might have a carbine
in his car, but a SWAT cop in the same
department might have his carbine configured
differently.
A collector may want a representation
of a period piece, as issued, and specific
to a particular time.
Competitors run the gamut from High
Power Service Rifle shooters to 3-Gun
shooters. In the case of the former, he
will have what looks something like an
M16A2, but with highly modified sights,
a free float tube under the handguards,
a 4.5-pound trigger and sufficient lead
weight added to bring the rifle up to 13-
14 pounds. The sling could be a leather
Turner M1907 type, and the barrel a
stainless steel behemoth.
The latter might have a much lighter
trigger, two optical sights, a muzzle
brake that does its job well (at the expense
of increased muzzle blast), free
float tube and other game-unique additions.
Probably the majority of ARs in the
civilian world—with the exception of
some competitive shooters—are not regularly
used. They may be brought to the
range occasionally, cleaned and admired
often (and maybe too much of each), but
with rare exceptions most are not rode
hard and put away wet.
In these cases what the carbine is
(make, model) and what is on their
carbine could be the result of multiple
inputs, possibly including cable and
broadcast news reports, magazine articles,
Internet communication, personal
preference, disposable income, and so on.
Everyone will have valid concerns
and desires when it comes to adding
equipment to or modifying their guns.
The problems arise when proponents
of one vocation, discipline or game confuse
their wants and needs with another.
They become vociferous in their opposition
to what someone else uses, basing
their noise on nothing more than the fact
that it doesn’t suit their particular needs.
In short, they are afflicted with a form
of weapon myopia, and the less they can
see, the more they bang their drum.
Even within sub groups there is dissension,
with some wanting simple
and others more capable guns. For example,
many patrol officers are issued
fairly stock ARs. The rationale can be
that police administrators may not want
anything unless the lowest common
denominator can safely operate it. (In
the late 1980s, the Master Instructor at
NYPD stated that he was against the issue
of semi-auto pistols to cops because
“they are too stupid to operate them.”)
In other cases, it may be cash driven. In
some cases the decision may be based on
knowledge of the system, common sense
and good people in charge.
A good case in point is the Arcadia,
California, PD. In 1987 they added 9mm
carbines to go with the shotguns in their
cars. Though some recognized the gross
limitations of the 9x19 in a long gun
package, others believed it was the best
compromise available at the time.
Sgt Dean Caputo took a hard look at
newly acquired empirical data and, after
lengthy research, in 1996 the Arcadia PD
chose and fielded the Colt Commando
with an 11.5-inch barrel (this was prior
to the North Hollywood incident). Every
unit in Arcadia PD—marked, unmarked
and even motorcycles—has the Colt
Commando.
Dean had to overcome a number of
issues regarding what and how the carbine
going to be used. The Commando
was not individually issued, rather it
went with the unit. All of the carbines
were zeroed by one cop, and then placed
in the vehicles. Dean also wanted the
carbines to be carried up front, and short
enough so that the driver could unlock
the mount, sling the gun and chamber a
round while inside the car. Unlike other
agencies, which bowed to political correctness
and the demands of radical
community activists to keep the long
guns in the trunk, he wanted the cop to
be able to exit the unit with the carbine
ready for action.
Keeping the gun up front meant that
optical sights were contraindicated.
None of the mounts could take optics, so
Dean stayed with iron sights—a compromise
based on solid input. An additional
issue was that, as the guns were not
individually issued, it would be tough
to hope that every cop would have the
same high level of expertise and devotion
to care.
As the gun stayed with the unit, the
Commandos had to be ambidextrous.
The cops in the car could both be right
handed, both left handed or there could
Short-barreled 416 with SureFire M900 light—easily the most capable of the
weapon-mounted white lights. Trijicon Mini ACOG is mounted on top. In this case,
Larue Mount replaced OEM mount—a wise choice. Single point sling is attached
to TangoDown PR-4 mount—another good choice. This mount is more expensive
than a receiver plate, but permits ambidextrous as well as central mounting
option. And you don’t have to take gun apart to fit it.
54 S.W.A.T. » APRIL 2007 SWATMAG.COM
be one of each. Slings and operational
controls needed to be accessible to all.
Caputo had to make some compromises
based on a multitude of internal
and external inputs, but his patrol rifle
program has been highly successful.
The Emergency Service Unit of NYPD
went to Ruger Mini 14s in the 1970s for
the sole reason that they “didn’t look as
militaristic” as M16s. The Minis were
Truck guns—that is, they were issued
out to the Emergency Service Squad, not
individuals.
It wasn’t until the murderous attack
on the World Trade Center that ESU purchased
a 5.56 carbine for all members—in
this case the Colt model R0979 M4 type
Carbine with an Aimpoint sight. The
times changed and so did requirements,
and the sight of cops armed with M4s
and dressed out in tac vests and helmets
wasn’t as offensive to the masses as the
results of the purveyors of a twisted philosophy
killing thousands of Americans
in an American city.
An oft-repeated refrain is that “they”
(alternate, “them”) took a neat 5.5 pound
carbine and turned it into a heavyweight
multipurpose whatever, loaded down
with everything known to man—specifically
“tactical doo-dads” (whatever a
doo-dad is). Some will moan about optics
and lust for guns that possess only
“good ole’ iron sights” (whatever “good
ole’ ” means).
Like most myths, it has some basis in
fact. Carrying a gun from your trunk to
a covered bench rest on a public range
requires little strength. Carrying that
same firestick for three or four days over
terrain where the contour lines blur is
something else again. Weight is an issue
for sure.
However, the end state of carrying
a carbine—penetrating bad guys with
projectiles—may mean that you do need
to offset weight for capability. Are you
absolutely sure that you’ll only have
to engage during daylight? Well then,
those lightweight “good ole” iron sights
may just do you right. But if you have to
use it at night, or in dim light, or indoors
at any time, or if your eyes are getting
weaker, or you have to put rounds into
multiple opponents at close range, then
you may need an optical sight, IR laser
aiming sight/IR illuminator or visible
laser aiming sight
If you want to win, that is. If you aspire
to be first loser, love mediocrity, or
don’t want to have an edge, go light—
real light. It can make it a lot easier for
others to police up your lifeless body
and inefficient equipment after all is said
and done.
Me, I’ll go weapon capable.
Is the primary use of your carbine
defense of your domicile/ family? If so,
have you ever considered when the burglaries
that turn into robberies, assaults,
sexual assaults or homicides most often
occur?
You guessed it—nighttime. That’s
probably why the law considers nighttime
burglaries to be more heinous
crimes, and why the law in many jurisdictions
permits greater latitude in the
use of Deadly Physical Force in such
cases.
The overwhelming majority of gun
owners have received no training. And
of those who have, fewer still have
trained at night. Without a white light,
you cannot adequately perform that
oh-so-important first step in the Target
Engagement Process—acquisition. And
if you do, the second and third parts—
identification and engagement—will be
likewise extremely difficult to perform.
It is your choice, and what you choose
may make no difference at all—or it may
mean the forfeiture of your life or those
of your loved ones..
Consider some “perfect” carbines…
When I had some property in the high
desert, I would go for a daily five miler.
Because cell service was minimal to nonexistent,
the local sheriff’s office was undermanned
and covered an area larger
than many states, and the desert is not
a particularly hospitable place anyway, I
carried a gun when doing cardio.
Understand that this wasn’t necessarily
for protection against bipeds—though
that was a distant possibility—but rather
against critters. Mountain lions, coyotes
and other predators were there way before
man, and I understand completely
PERFECT CARBINE
Caveat Emptor rings as true
today as it did when Latin was
a viable language. Local SWAT
Team purchased uppers as
well as two complete guns
from manufacturer known for
competition guns, not fighting
guns. Though guns were spec’d
for 5.56 chambers (and barrels
were so marked), chambers
were in fact .223. In addition
to mismarked chambers,
extractor spring was the
older type and the insert was
blue, rather than the correct
enhanced carbine extractor
spring with black insert. Here,
Sheriff Ken Campbell uses Ned
Christensen’s Chamber Reamer
to bring guns up to spec.
SWATMAG.COM S.W.A.T. » APRIL 2007 55
that the food chain exists. I don’t want to
be on the lower end of it.
To that end I had an older Colt Carbine—
slab sided, standard barrel (what some
are calling a “skinny” or “pencil” barrel,
their minds having been altered by advertising
hype into believing that heavy barrels
are standard) and a two-point sling.
The only alterations were an XS golf ball
front sight and an A2 aperture rear. I have
no use for the small aperture for anything
but Highpower competition. Any shots I
needed to take were up close (under 50m)
and rapid target acquisition was more
important than theoretical polka dot accuracy.
I don’t do outdoor cardio at night,
so a weapon mounted white light was a
non-issue, and I didn’t need an optical
sight for low light engagement. Weight
was the issue here—a 5.5-pound rifle can
get very heavy after a few miles.
For that specific purpose—daytime
only, short-range engagement—that particular
carbine was optimal for me, and
for that use.
This is not a carbine that I would list
as first choice for combat, be it Infantry
engagement or Direct Action. When the
M16 family first saw combat, night vision
was relatively new technology, and
nighttime firefights were noisy affairs
where hits were more the result of luck
than skill. That has changed, and will
continue to change, as technology meets
the emerging threats.
Shift forward a little bit here. Within
the confines of my house I keep a carbine
handy. Where I reside, crime is minimal,
but not unknown, and as you can’t make
an appointment to have an emergency, I’ll
opt for being prepared. Common crime
may not be the only issue here, though.
Terrorism is no longer theoretical, and
regional events such as Katrina and Rita
are cyclic—we will see devastation from
their likes again. The attack on the U.S.
by Islamo Fascists and Katrina were different
on many levels, but both were eradefining
events.
Future events may be more or less destructive,
depending on who is hurling
the arrows. And whether the event is regional
or national, if you are in the middle
of it, the world as you know it will change
in a very short period of time—and your
world may never be the same again.
continued on page 86
PERFECT CARBINE
86 S.W.A.T. » APRIL 2007 SWATMAG.COM
My in-house carbine has an Aimpoint
M3 mounted as well as a SureFire
M900 light (both in Larue mounts). The
Aimpoint has an obscenely capable battery
life—I never shut it off. It remains
on medium power, and therefore good
to go. The SureFire M900 is the most capable
of the weapon-mounted lights out
there, and while heavy and expensive,
the tradeoff is well worth it.
If I need to defend my life or that of
a third person under extreme circumstances,
I want something that is sufficient
to the task—and that specific gun
is up to the task.
Before my eyes deteriorated (aging
sucks, but beats the alternative) I
shot Highpower Service Rifle. I went
Distinguished with an M14, but the supremacy
of the M16 brought me around
to that platform in the late 1990s. It had
1/4 MOA sights, a tiny rear aperture,
lead in the buttstock and lead sleeves
around the handguard. The barrel was
a very heavy, match grade 1:8 twist that
shot like the proverbial house on fire. It
had a trigger you would die for in service
rifle competition—but it might be a
trigger that you would die because of in
a gunfight. If you are shooting Service
Rifle, this is a solid performing gun. For
3-Gun competition, it is useless, and for
gunfighting it is a detriment.
Individuals seeking to buy a carbine
(or most any other gun) will seek advice
from others. Some will go to local gun
stores, where the advice may be excellent
or may be based on nothing more
than what that dealer stocks and has
available. Others will go on the errornet,
where a great many people will—based
on their frame of reference of owning
one article—sing its praises or roll it under
the bus. Caveat Emptor rings loud
here, and the buyer must be cautious.
One—or even 100—may not be a good
statistical sample. Performance over
the long haul by a large number of like
weapons will give you a better idea as to
overall usefulness.
That data is not easily forthcoming.
Periodicals do not have the budget to do
the sophisticated testing necessary, and
the large volume of public sales that requires
such testing does not exist (consider
baby seats, refrigerators and the
like).
Every maker is capable of turning
out a poor article. The Quality Control/
Quality Assurance procedures set in
place will determine the volume of
poor guns. Understand that those selling
to the government must perform
to a standard, and that inspectors can
(and do) enforce those standards. Also
understand that while Low Bidder was
a common way for agencies to choose
an item, Best Value is now a standard
for those smart enough to understand
the implications. And best value means
exactly that—a higher initial price that
is offset by higher standards for quality.
Lower cost is often a clue that short cuts
are being implemented. These may be
more efficient manufacturing or something
more insidious, and the only way
you may ever find out is when your
bolt cracks, your gas carrier keys aren’t
staked, the 5.56 chamber you spec’d is
actually a .223 “match” chamber or the
gun flat doesn’t run. And the military/
LE sales guy is on vacation and can’t be
bothered to take care of the problems
that his crappy little company foisted
upon your team.
Every maker is also capable of turning
out good guns, but some seem to take
shortcuts and hedge on the assumption
that most gun buyers shoot very little—
if at all.
I once had the opportunity to watch
two European gun writers show up for
a carbine class where they were to use a
particular maker’s guns.
The guns were there all right, but neither
one worked at all. No amount of
tweaking could get them functioning.
What made it even worse is that when
the school called the factory to get two
new guns, the response was that there
were no more guns available.
Here the factory knew what these
guns were for, but apparently completely
misunderstood (or were unconcerned)
about what the ramifications of poor QC
and worse customer service would be.
I see examples of both good and less
good guns at every class. Over the years
it has led me to understand that there
are some guns that are more—and less—
likely to work as advertised. My purchasing
decisions and recommendations
are based on that frame of reference going
back three decades.
The search for the “perfect” carbine
may be no more attainable than the
search for the Holy Grail, and Monty
Python’s version may be as viable as
Dan Brown’s.
There is no “perfect” carbine. There is
no “ultimate” carbine. The carbine—like
any other firearm—is only a tool, and
you have to decide what it is that makes
a particular tool best for your particular
mission requirements.
Make your decisions based on reality,
and not on what the screen “hero” uses
to slay hordes of zombies. If you see
something that you don’t like on another’s
gun, keep your pie hole in check and
avoid the keypad until you have a clear
understanding as to what it is and why
it is needed. Better to keep your mouth
shut and let people think you are a fool
than open it and confirm everyone’s suspicions.
If you carry/use a firearm for real, cultivate
the proper mindset and seek out
the best training that you can. Make sure
that sustainment training is part of your
life. That will be the only way to maximize
your equipment and ensure that
you win the fight.
It is—and always has been—the singer,
not the song. §
[Pat Rogers is a retired Chief Warrant
Officer of Marines and a retired NYPD
Sergeant. He is the owner of E.A.G. Inc.,
which provides services to various governmental
organizations. He can be reached at
eag@10-8consulting.com]


Reply With Quote



Bookmarks