S&B Short Dot Models Explained.

[Snake]

any word on when or if S&B is gonna bring the Zenith LE out with the CQB reticle?

Cyrus

[Snake]

I went on Schmidt & Bender's german website and noticed that they sell the Zenith LE with the CQB reticle. How come we don't have it yet?

[RAM Engineer]

Does anyone know which S&B Part Numbers go with which Short Dot model? I was trying to navigate SWFA's website, with minimal luck.

I can't tell if the "Short Dot II" ("Zenith Short Dot LE") is in the PMII line or the Zenith line.

This is what I'm guessing so far:

Police Marksman II line:

9467 - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen I) w/ Flashdot#7 reticle (illum.)
946SDL - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen II) w/ Short Dot "CQB" reticle
946SD - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen I) w/ Short Dot "CQB" reticle

9762 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#2 reticle (illum.)
9767 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#7 reticle (illum.)
9769 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#9 reticle (illum.)

Zenith line:

9767Z - 1.1-4x24 Zenith w/ #7 reticle (non-illum.)
976L7Z - 1.1-4x24 Zenith w/ Flashdot#7 reticle (illum.)
976L9Z - 1.1-4x24 Zenith w/ Flashdot#9 reticle (illum.)

Is this pretty close? What are the differences between the 9767 and the 976L7Z, for instance?

[VA_Dinger]

Does anyone know which S&B Part Numbers go with which Short Dot model? I was trying to navigate SWFA's website, with minimal luck.

Yeah their website is confusing.

I can't tell if the "Short Dot II" ("Zenith Short Dot LE") is in the PMII line or the Zenith line.

The new Short Dot II / Short Dot LE are part of the PMII line. Even though they are based off the Zenith 1.1-4x24 line of scopes.

Police Marksman II line:

9467 - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen I) w/ Flashdot#7 reticle (illum.)
946SDL - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen II) w/ Short Dot "CQB" reticle
946SD - 1.1-4x20 Short Dot (Gen I) w/ Short Dot "CQB" reticle

These are the originals. The differences between the Gen I & Gen II are listed above.

9762 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#2 reticle (illum.)
9767 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#7 reticle (illum.)
9769 - 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE (Short Dot II) w/ Flashdot#9 reticle (illum.)

These are the newest versions. The X24 is the tell tale. The original Gen I & Gen II models are all 1.1-4x20.

The easy way to remember and spot them:

S&B PMII

Original Short Dot Gen I & Gen II:
1.1-4x20

Short Dot II / Short Dot LE
1.1-4x24

[Snake]

Here's part of a e-mail I got back from Mark Cromwell at S&B asking about the Zenith LE with the CQB reticle.

"As you know the 1.1-4x24 Zenith is a second focal plane scope and
Germany has been telling me they had issues with installing a ranging
style reticle into this scope as the reticle spacing would not hold true
throughout the power range like it does in the first focal plane
1.1-4x20 Short Dot's. We have wanted a ranging reticle but could not
decide on the proper one as there are several people who dislike the
"CQB" reticle. We were thinking of a mil-dot style at one point."

Cyrus

[TDB7117]

Although I had some non-AR applications in mind when I made my purchase decision, I have found the Zenith FlashDot 1.5-6x42mm (non-PM II) to be an astonishingly versatile piece of glass that offers most of the advantages of the Short Dot with significantly more distance precision and light-gathering capability. I'm not suggesting this is the way to go for everyone, but for those who are drawn to the Short Dot concept, but are wishing for something with just a bit more headroom, the 1.5-6x42mm Zenith may actually be worth looking into.

Chief

Tell me more! Is it the same daylight visable red dot as the 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE? Can this scope be used with both eyes open? If so, is there much distortion at 1.5X? Does it have the same locking turrets? What about the BDC?

Thanks

[Army Chief]

I guess there are both subjective and objective questions being raised here, so let me deal first with the facts.

The entire Zenith line is available with the same visible red dot used on the ShortDot, which is referred to as the "FlashDot" in S&B parlance. The same reticles are generally available, with the exception of the CQB-dedicated variant. Functionally, the two models in question here are more alike than they are different, though some of the PM-II line touches (notably, locking turrets) are absent on the regular Zenith line models.

Objectively, there are measurable field of view differences, as you might expect, but these are slight in actual usage -- and I consider them a small price to pay for a bit more top end magnification capability. Distortion at 1.5 is a more subjective thing, and my answer may not be very instructive. In using the scope with both eyes open (which is easily done, as this is a perfect fast-acquisition drive hunt optic according to the German definition), there is some obvious disparity, but S&B glass clarity is so uniformly excellent that I would hesitate to call any of this "distortion."

Ultimately, I would describe the ShortDot as a very capable, uniformly excellent mission-optimized optic. The Zenith 1.5-6x42 offers the same basic features, clarity and build quality, with somewhat broader applicability to non-CQB applications. One might level the charge that in making such an observation, I'm missing the whole point of the ShortDot, and to some degree that is likely true. That said, my needs were not quite so homogenous, and the Zenith delivers in areas where the ShortDot cannot; especially at lower light levels (since I'm not switching to NVDs away from the job) and at somewhat greater distances (since my over-40 eyes appreciate the extra 2x). Given the same technology, same superior glass, and same reticle/dot possibilities as the ShortDot, I'm just not sure how one can find much fault with the larger Zeniths.

Chief

[TDB7117]

Thanks for the excellent response.

Now my question would be for those that have the 1.1-4x24 Short Dot. Why do they have such a small objective lens diameter? Their twilight factor is only (3.5/8.9). How do they really perform in lowlight?

[pstrauss]

Is it possible to mount the S&B short dot in-line with a mounted night vision device like the PVS-14?

[Molon]

Here's a few more pics of the Short Dot II (1.1 - 4 x 24mm Zenith Short Dot LE.)