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Thread: Thinking in Circles:Opinions and Help with New Rifle, Please

  1. #1
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    Thinking in Circles:Opinions and Help with New Rifle, Please

    Well, I hate to do this, but I'm at the point where I feel like I'm going in circles, and I really could use some helpful info to break the mindlock I'm in over picking a new rifle.

    Here's my thoughts so far:

    With a lot of luck, I'll be upgrading my AR soon. Based on a pile of research, I've decided I either want a Daniel Defense, or BCM. I know I could probably just flip a coin here, but there's some other issues-

    First, I'm leaning heavily toward a midlength. If I was going to stick with a carbine I would have grabbed a DD XV-EZ and been done with it. But based on what I'm seeing with my current carbine and what I've read, I think a midlength will suit me better, namely because I need more rail length.

    Of the two brands, I'm torn between the DD M4V3, or BCM Mid16 Mod 2.
    http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15_...ID_16_s/31.htm
    http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=s...product_id=207

    Here's why: (Not in order of importance)

    1) They both come with a rail- good. But I'm not sure I really want to get into free float territory with the DD just yet.
    I admit that I have limited experience in the area of these rifles, and at this time the drop-in on the BCM seems to be the better choice for ease of use (I won't have to worry about fooling with the front sight at all either). Plus, it seems that any advantage I may get from a free float, I'm really not going to need for it's intended uses.
    It also appears that both rails have QD sockets-also good. But on the BCM they are both front and rear. This seems likely to cause an issue when I go to mount a light. I don't know if anyone makes light mounts that will go over this. My current mount consideration is Gear Sector.

    2)They both come with rear sights- good. But I really don't want a fixed sight like the DD- I really DO want the Troy (?) on the BCM. Of course I could sell the DD sight and make enough to get the Troy....
    I will be using an Eotech as my RDS.

    3)Rear receiver QD sling attachment point- DD has it, BCM doesn't. This is a very big issue, as I fully intend to use this method to attach a sling.
    I could get a QD mount like DD's installed, but I'm not sure I want to screw with the factory staking...
    I could get a bolt-on QD mount, but so far they seem to either interfere with your face (could be a big issue), or cause the stock to be unable to fully collapse (minor issue).

    4)Flared magwell- DD has it, BCM says nothing- I'm guessing they don't? Apparently this is a well liked feature of DD's rifles, that would be nice to have. Although, I haven't had any issues yet with my current rifle as far as seating and release of magazines (running Pmags).
    On a side note, one of my planned upgrades- the Gunfighter charging handle is already included with the BCM. Kind of a trade-off here, I suppose.

    5)Price. This, for me is what it all boils down to in the end-the BCM seem like it will fit my budget better, overall. I know you're getting a lot with the DD, but for the price of the BCM, I could get an MOE stock, bolt-on QD mount, and probably still have money left over....

    So, opinions anyone?
    Am I making any sense of this?
    Just can't seem to make a final decision either way...

    My thanks in advance for taking the time to read through that wall of text.
    Last edited by Jellybean; 07-23-10 at 19:41.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

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  2. #2
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    Sounds like the only point for the DDM4 is the rear sling point. That's easily fixable, even if you pay a smith to do it, they should be able to properly stake everything when done.

    Oh, wait, I forgot about the flared magwell. I haven't worked with one, so I don't know if it would be better for me. I haven't found a problem loading pmags as long as you use a good (beer can or front-indexed) grip on them.

    Buy the BCM, then spend a good bit on ammo, and save the rest of the cash - once you have the rifle, you'll have plenty of needs for it.

    What are you needs for the rifle? Both are great rifles, and should to a LOT without complaining.
    Last edited by MTechnik; 07-23-10 at 20:17.

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    Yeah, I'm pretty confident with either choice, it's just which one at this point.
    I'll have to do some looking around, but I'm not sure that I have a gunsmith within 2 hours of me that I'd trust- that's why I brought up the bolt-on QD option.
    Intended uses are personal/home defense, pest control, and running through training classes without self destructing.
    Should have said this before- my bad.
    Last edited by Jellybean; 07-24-10 at 00:36.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty confident with either choice, it's just which one at this point.
    I'll have to do some looking around, but I'm not sure that I have a gunsmith within 2 hours of me that I'd trust- that's why I brought up the bolt-on QD option.
    Intended uses are personal/home defense, pest control, and running through training classes without self destructing.
    Should have said this before- my bad.
    There are also a few stocks you can get with QD options, but I'd look into a magpul ASAP plate plus CTR stock... Or a UBR... They both lock up nice and tight, and have different sling and balance plusses and minuses. (one good thing about the UBR install is that you can do it at home without a stock wrench, and it is 100% reliable - ok, I don't kick in doors personally, but it seems to receive a nice welcome out there...)
    Last edited by MTechnik; 07-24-10 at 00:50.

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    OP,

    BCM will take PMAGs, no problem. No issues with the magwell being tight, either.

    You may want to reconsider your choice of optic- the Aimpoint series, especially the Comp M4, M4S and T-1/H-1 series are vastly superior RDS type optics to the EOTECHs.

    As for the sling issue, no experience with the DD, so can't comment there.
    SSG Jimmy Ide- KIA 28 Aug 10, Hyderabad, AFG

    1SG Blue Rowe- KIA 26 May 09, Panjshir, AFG.

    RIP Brothers

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    Having BCM as your "budget" choice is a hell of a nice problem to have. just sayin.

    Are you hell bent on buying a complete gun? If what you like about the DD is the lower, then buy a complete DD lower and stick a BCM upper on it.

    FWIW, I like the 16" LW Mid over the standard. Complete gun or complete upper (add BCG and BCM GF Mod 4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Having BCM as your "budget" choice is a hell of a nice problem to have. just sayin.

    Are you hell bent on buying a complete gun? If what you like about the DD is the lower, then buy a complete DD lower and stick a BCM upper on it.

    FWIW, I like the 16" LW Mid over the standard. Complete gun or complete upper (add BCG and BCM GF Mod 4).
    Listen to rob! Call G&R, get your DD lower, just how you want it, and order a BCM upper direct from while still on sale. Winning combo in my book.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTechnik View Post
    There are also a few stocks you can get with QD options, but I'd look into a magpul ASAP plate plus CTR stock... Or a UBR... They both lock up nice and tight, and have different sling and balance plusses and minuses. (one good thing about the UBR install is that you can do it at home without a stock wrench, and it is 100% reliable - ok, I don't kick in doors personally, but it seems to receive a nice welcome out there...)
    I am actually planning on a CTR. I listed the MOE as a budget alternative that I could happily live with.

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanSynergy View Post
    ....You may want to reconsider your choice of optic- the Aimpoint series, especially the Comp M4, M4S and T-1/H-1 series are vastly superior RDS type optics to the EOTECHs.

    As for the sling issue, no experience with the DD, so can't comment there.
    Yes, I have been hearing about the Aimpoints being a bit better than the Eotechs. The thing is , I already own the Eotech, so I figured I'll just use what I've got.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Having BCM as your "budget" choice is a hell of a nice problem to have. just sayin.

    Are you hell bent on buying a complete gun? If what you like about the DD is the lower, then buy a complete DD lower and stick a BCM upper on it.

    FWIW, I like the 16" LW Mid over the standard. Complete gun or complete upper (add BCG and BCM GF Mod 4).
    Although it seems like anything "budget" in this area will never really be that.

    No, I'm not set on a complete gun- I posted those links because A) you guys could see the whole package of what i was talking about, and B)I did some pricing originally, and it actually came out to more than the complete guns costs, if I would have built it seperately.
    This obviously changes things.

    Couple more questions-
    How long is G&R likely to have the DD lowers in stock?
    Or if they go out, an approximate time to restock?
    Just asking, because I'm going to have to sell my current carbine before moving on.

    Is there any real huge advantage to having BCM's BFH upper, as opposed to the standard/ lightweight?

    *Edit*- On second look, add in the Troy BUIS, and a rail system, and it looks like I'm back up around the same/+ dollar amount as a completed rifle.....
    Last edited by Jellybean; 07-24-10 at 10:19.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

  9. #9
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    you really need to call or email G&R to answer questions specific to their stock. I got a complete BCM upper minus the hand guards for 589 shipped to my door. Add that to the lower of your choice and it is VERY competitive with complete rifles. I picked up a 6920 for 1204 OTD a month ago and I considered that a smoking deal before I saw BCM drop their prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spamsammich View Post
    you really need to call or email G&R to answer questions specific to their stock. I got a complete BCM upper minus the hand guards for 589 shipped to my door. Add that to the lower of your choice and it is VERY competitive with complete rifles. I picked up a 6920 for 1204 OTD a month ago and I considered that a smoking deal before I saw BCM drop their prices.
    Yeah, I thought of this after I posted previously.

    As far as the rifle- I think I may try to go with a build after all- even though it's going to end up costing around the same, I think it will actually fit my budget better, as I can slowly piece it together instead of spending one huge lump sum.

    Can anyone give me an approximate difference between the lightweight and standard BCM uppers, as far as weight and options?
    The writeup says nothing different on the site.
    I could call them, but I'm in the middle of a family vacation and am running around like crazy (hence, the previous question about G&R).
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

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