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Thread: Thinking in Circles:Opinions and Help with New Rifle, Please

  1. #11
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    The difference between pencil barrels and gov profile middy barrels usually sits at around 6 oz but the big difference in my opinion is overall balance of the upper. 6 oz hung out at the end of the gun feels like a LOT more than 6 ounces. Balance issues can sometimes be mitigated by stock choice but the tradeoff there is you add to the overall weight of the gun if you balance a muzzle heavy upper with a heavier stock.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamsammich View Post
    The difference between pencil barrels and gov profile middy barrels usually sits at around 6 oz but the big difference in my opinion is overall balance of the upper. 6 oz hung out at the end of the gun feels like a LOT more than 6 ounces. Balance issues can sometimes be mitigated by stock choice but the tradeoff there is you add to the overall weight of the gun if you balance a muzzle heavy upper with a heavier stock.
    Big +1.

    I went from a Colt 6520 (pencil barrel) to a Noveske midlength. Overall weight difference was probably less than a pound, but its all out front. It completely changes the feel and balance of the gun. My next AR is deffinitely going to be a pencil barrel again, probably a BCM.
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  3. #13
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    Standard upper



    lightweight upper (.750" gas block)

  4. #14
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    Thanks guys.
    Rob_s- Just out of curiosity, would you also happen to have a weight on the BFH upper?
    Last edited by Jellybean; 07-25-10 at 09:11.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

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  5. #15
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    I do not. I haven't really bought into the current "hammer forged" trend.

  6. #16
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    I see.

    One other thing- do any of the BCM uppers have triangular handguard caps? This is not a feature I necessarily want. However, one of the rail-handguards I was looking at (MI #18 ML) says it is designed for triangular caps, and some of the pictures of the uppers made it look like there was some curve to the hanguard caps.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

  7. #17
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    Two quick thoughts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
    1) They both come with a rail- good. But I'm not sure I really want to get into free float territory with the DD just yet.
    I admit that I have limited experience in the area of these rifles, and at this time the drop-in on the BCM seems to be the better choice for ease of use (I won't have to worry about fooling with the front sight at all either). Plus, it seems that any advantage I may get from a free float, I'm really not going to need for it's intended uses.
    I do not understand what you mean here, especially the bold part. What makes a nonFF rail easier to use? Why would you not have to mess with the front sight on the BCM, but you would on the DD?

    Also, what price are you seeing for both? The DD can be had for $1200 give or take. I am not familiar with the price of the particular BCM you're considering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    The M4C Mantra:

    What do you want it to do and how much are you willing to spend?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
    No, I'm not set on a complete gun- I posted those links because A) you guys could see the whole package of what i was talking about, and B)I did some pricing originally, and it actually came out to more than the complete guns costs, if I would have built it seperately.
    This obviously changes things.
    I don't really know how you did your pricing, but it's going to be cheaper if you buy the lower, upper, and rail system separately.

    -DD lower receiver w/ 6-pos receiver extension, G&R Tactical LPK, buffer spring, and castle nut, Noveske QD end-plate, H-buffer, standard GI trigger guard, A2 grip, M4 stock - $364
    -BCM midlength upper receiver group - $385
    -BCM BCG and charging handle - $135
    -Troy MRF-DI midlength rail system - $159
    -Magpul MBUS BUIS - $55

    TOTAL - $1108 excluding S&H

    It'll be even cheaper if you don't buy the stock since you're going to buy a CTR anyways. That's one hell of a carbine for $1100!

    Just asking, because I'm going to have to sell my current carbine before moving on.
    What's wrong with the lower on your existing carbine? You could save a lot of money just buying an upper receiver group and upgrading some parts on your lower.

    One other thing- do any of the BCM uppers have triangular handguard caps? This is not a feature I necessarily want. However, one of the rail-handguards I was looking at (MI #18 ML) says it is designed for triangular caps, and some of the pictures of the uppers made it look like there was some curve to the hanguard caps.
    My understanding is that all of the midlength uppers from BCM have triangular handguard caps. If you're planning on using a drop-in rail, you'll need those!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by texag View Post
    Two quick thoughts:

    I do not understand what you mean here, especially the bold part. What makes a nonFF rail easier to use? Why would you not have to mess with the front sight on the BCM, but you would on the DD?

    Also, what price are you seeing for both? The DD can be had for $1200 give or take. I am not familiar with the price of the particular BCM you're considering.
    Well, from what I see so far, the non FF on the BCM would be easier for me because it just attaches in the way standard hanguards do. On the DD, it's a free float- one thing I have read, is that some FF rails cannot be removed/installed over the front sight- I'd have to remove/re-attach it.
    Now, I have seen some FF's that can be easily installed without working around the front sight, and I'm sure I'd be perfectly happy with the rail on DD's rifle. But if somewhere down the road I want a different rail, or need to perform some sort of maintenance, I'm not sure I'm confident in having to disassemble the front of the rifle.
    Maybe I'm wrong somewhere here, but a non FF rail seems a more Murphy-proof choice for me.

    As far as prices- off the top of my head, on Aim Surplus they list the DD M4 (carbine) for $1429. The DD M4V3 from my list is the same $ on Clyde's Armory.
    I haven't seen much of the completed BCM's- maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place. But on the PDF form on their site, it's listed as around $1299.

    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    I don't really know how you did your pricing, but it's going to be cheaper if you buy the lower, upper, and rail system separately.

    -DD lower receiver w/ 6-pos receiver extension, G&R Tactical LPK, buffer spring, and castle nut, Noveske QD end-plate, H-buffer, standard GI trigger guard, A2 grip, M4 stock - $364
    -BCM midlength upper receiver group - $385
    -BCM BCG and charging handle - $135
    -Troy MRF-DI midlength rail system - $159 (This is actually the exact one I was thinking)
    -Magpul MBUS BUIS - $55

    TOTAL - $1108 excluding S&H

    It'll be even cheaper if you don't buy the stock since you're going to buy a CTR anyways. That's one hell of a carbine for $1100!
    Where did you see the above bolded lower?
    That's with the QD plate installed?

    I think it may have been same as/more pricewise, because I added in all the extras I wanted- CTR/Troy BUIS/Gunfighter charging handle.

    What's wrong with the lower on your existing carbine? You could save a lot of money just buying an upper receiver group and upgrading some parts on your lower.
    That thought did run through my head. I have seen a good few people around here that used Stag lowers on their rifles.
    My assumption was that A) I'd still want the QD plate, and B) it might be easier to sell the rifle as a whole?

    My understanding is that all of the midlength uppers from BCM have triangular handguard caps. If you're planning on using a drop-in rail, you'll need those!
    So then if all BCM uppers have triangular caps, and both the MI and Troy drop-ins fit triangular caps, would it be safe to assume (ignoring my current lack of research in this area)that most midlength uppers in general, assembled in this way, are going to have said caps?
    In other words, I can't see BCM stocking rails that won't fit other brands of uppers...?
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
    Well, from what I see so far, the non FF on the BCM would be easier for me because it just attaches in the way standard hanguards do. On the DD, it's a free float- one thing I have read, is that some FF rails cannot be removed/installed over the front sight- I'd have to remove/re-attach it.
    Now, I have seen some FF's that can be easily installed without working around the front sight, and I'm sure I'd be perfectly happy with the rail on DD's rifle. But if somewhere down the road I want a different rail, or need to perform some sort of maintenance, I'm not sure I'm confident in having to disassemble the front of the rifle.
    Maybe I'm wrong somewhere here, but a non FF rail seems a more Murphy-proof choice for me.

    As far as prices- off the top of my head, on Aim Surplus they list the DD M4 (carbine) for $1429. The DD M4V3 from my list is the same $ on Clyde's Armory.
    I haven't seen much of the completed BCM's- maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place. But on the PDF form on their site, it's listed as around $1299.
    That is true of one piece FF rails. The Omega X is a 2 piece ff design. Loosen the 4 set screws that secure it to the barrel nut then remove the screws that hold the upper and lower rail portions together and it's off. You only have to remove the FSB to take off the barrel nut. That's something you have to do anytime you remove the barrel nut regardless of what kind of handguards you have.

    Go to Clyde Armory, add the DDM4v3 to your cart, and the price will be $1179.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    The M4C Mantra:

    What do you want it to do and how much are you willing to spend?

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