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Thread: Customer Service, AR's and You

  1. #1
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    Customer Service, AR's and You

    I am posting this here simply because it I don't want to exclude people by posting it in General Discussions. This post directly relates to AR's. Please do not start pissing contests with one another causing this to get locked.

    So a little back story to this. Several times over the years here I have seen posts where people have purchased "brand x" AR only to have it malfunction or break. It seems that after a brief discussion they want to dick with it themselves or take it to the local "Fuddsmith" so he can trash it further. Let's put this into a context. If you purchased a large screen LED TV from Bestbuy and it wouldn't work when you plugged it in, or it died in 2 days would you simply try and fix it yourself or take it to the local repair store?

    I know I wouldn't. I would load it up and take it back to Bestbuy with the expectation that they make it right. On the other hand they can't make it right if I don't tell them about it.

    So why would you do this with an AR? Many manufacturers have some type of warranty and if they don't that should have told you something when you bought it. But, they can't fix a problem or their product if no one tells them. Yes, I know that there are some who are content in putting out xxxx type of carbine and could care less what their customers think, but again this is the fault of the buyer for not doing their homework.

    I am bringing this up due to a couple of things that happened in the last few weeks. I had a Bravo Company upper receiver that was not mating up properly to some of my lowers as well as the lower for the person whose rifle I was converting to a flat top carbine. I contacted Paul and explained the problem. He replied almost immediately and sent me a new one. Now that is service! He could have blown me off or said deal with it. But, BCM stepped up and did the right thing. I could have easily played with it a little to make it fit, but I shouldn't have to do it.

    The other incident involved a friend of mine whom I worked with in Iraq. He recently returned home and wanted to put together some stuff that he had been acquiring over the last several months. He was attempting to put together a lower receiver from Sun Devil Arms here in Arizona. In the process he broke an ear off the trigger guard area while installing a Magpul trigger guard. This was not his first build and I taught him what he knows so I feel confident that he knew what he was doing. He told me that the pins for the guard as well as the bolt catch were very difficult to install and that material was actually shaved from the holes during installation.

    He asked me what he should do as he was prepared to just scrap it. I advised him to contact Sun Devil and have them make it right. He sent them an email (he Bcc'd me) and received no response after waiting a week. I then told him to call and speak with a live person. The first time he called he got someone who basically had no clue what they were talking about and then told him to email sales. I told him to call again and ask for warranty/ repairs. On the 2nd call he reached the same person who advised that they were "kind of doing everything" at the moment.

    He got the run around and then was told to send the lower and the LPK and they will look at it to determine if it was out of spec or not.

    He is still waiting for a repsonse at this time. I personally believe that they could have dealt with this better. They have every right to inspect it, but they should be giving the consumer the benefit of the doubt and offered to replace it.

    A few more last thoughts.

    1. If you buy a new AR and it isn't working right-return it. Do not dick with it and try and fix it yourself. Make the manufacturer address the issue. If possible send them an email describing in detail what happened and follow it up with a phone call.

    2. Do your homework. There is enough information available here to make an informed decision. When certain brand names continue to pop up and not in a good way, that is a CLUE. Set your emotions aside and use reason.

    3. If you cannot return the weapon (or whatever it is) then make sure that you seek out competent help. If your local "gunsmith" says he can fix it, find out what his background and experience is.
    Last edited by Iraqgunz; 07-25-10 at 23:26.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  2. #2
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    If I broke the ear off of a lower I wouldn't expect the company to replace it.

  3. #3
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    Why not? He did it correctly and the holes were not correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by organdonor View Post
    If I broke the ear off of a lower I wouldn't expect the company to replace it.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Why not? He did it correctly and the holes were not correct.
    Every guard pin I've installed has been a tight fit. I guess I mean that I wouldn't fault them for not replacing it but I'd be impressed if they did.

  5. #5
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    I guess you didn't read the post. The holes were not in spec. As he was installing the guard it was shaving material from the hole it also happened with the bolt catch. The parts kit is a milspec kit. I have installed several dozens and never had this happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by organdonor View Post
    Every guard pin I've installed has been a tight fit. I guess I mean that I wouldn't fault them for not replacing it but I'd be impressed if they did.
    Last edited by Iraqgunz; 07-25-10 at 23:43.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I guess you didn't read the post. The holes were not in spec. As he was installing the guard it was shaving material from the hole it also happened with the bolt catch. The parts kit is a milspec kit. I have installed several dozens and never had this happen.
    I read this part

    was told to send the lower and the LPK and they will look at it to determine if it was out of spec or not.
    So figured the jury was still out on that. Anyway that's how I feel personally; don't get angry.

  7. #7
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    I don't need them to tell me it was or wasn't. I have seen the pics and I will vouch for him. I am not getting angry with you. It just seems like want to argue to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by organdonor View Post
    I read this part



    So figured the jury was still out on that. Anyway that's how I feel personally; don't get angry.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  8. #8
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    Snapping ears is a common mistake, but it doesn't negate issues with parts being out of spec.

    Customer service is often a matter of getting the attention of the right person.



    When certain brand names continue to pop up and not in a good way, that is a CLUE. Set your emotions aside and use reason.

    A very good point. Another comment added to that would be to watch what vendors are recommending, they may be legit, but they may also be pushing what they sell and like.

    Find voices you trust if you need help.
    Last edited by Stickman; 07-26-10 at 00:27.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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    Thumbs up

    100% spot on. Great post!

    I'm dealing with a firearms issue right now (non AR platform), but will give the MFR a chance to fix it.
    SSG Jimmy Ide- KIA 28 Aug 10, Hyderabad, AFG

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  10. #10
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    Stickman is right. The only person to talk to at Sun Devil is the owner, Dave Beaty. I have seen him replace lowers when the issue was without a doubt the consumer's fault.

    Even a "mil-spec" parts kit can be out of spec, everyone makes mistakes, including Sun Devil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz from another thread
    I put a little oil on the pin and I use a roll pin punch. I start the pin in the hole and just as it gets flush I install the trigger guard. I usually lock the lower in a vise using a vise block. Never had any problems
    I know you have assembled untold numbers of AR's and M-16's, but my personal opinion is you need to support the ear before installing the pin. I do it with the trigger guard although it could be done with a piece of metal, aluminum or plastic that fits snugly between the two ears. You also need to support the other ear on a piece of wood, nylon or something.

    I do agree with your post, advise the manufacturer and give them a chance to make it right.

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