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Thread: Customer Service, AR's and You

  1. #31
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    lower reciever

    I have had problems putting the trigger guard pin in some lowers. Some coating types ( ie that on Oly Arms is thicker ) . Yhe type on RRA and Colt thin-normal , take your pick of terms. I groke the Oly Arms ears . Supported. The pin shaved the coating . Of coarse an application of Devcon machinable epoxy solved my problem. On the harder shinnier coatings , clean out the holes first. Parts then fit fine. No . I did not expect the manufacturer to replace my **** up.

  2. #32
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    this is true wisdom from IG. I have screwed up enough things (not guns) trying to fix things so I don't have to send them back with the hassle it entails. I would have been better to make the return.

    Luckily I have not had issues with firearms. But this wisdom applies to non firearms things as well (cars, computers, etc). Even is something is out of warranty, unless you are really an expert in it, consider letting the experts at least look at it.

    When I lived in Germany I bought a used Mazda 323. Long past warranty. It started to have issues and I spent a lot more money trying to fix it (because I was scared it would cost a fortune) than it eventually cost me to take it to a dealer and have them diagnose and fix it (needed new spark plug wiring harness was all).

    Those companies I have had good CS experiences with really make me feel good about giving them more business. (Not the only reason, but one reason I buy Apple products -- they have always gone above and beyond when I had issues)

    So, take IG's wisdom to heart. When your new mark 100 blaster is not working right, avail yourself of the CS of the manufacturer or distributor. And if they have crappy CS, remember that as well in the future. CS is half of what you are buying. Don't keep buying products from those people who don't stick up for their products.
    • formerly known as "eguns-com"
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  3. #33
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    1. If you buy a new AR and it isn't working right-return it. Do not dick with it and try and fix it yourself. Make the manufacturer address the issue. If possible send them an email describing in detail what happened and follow it up with a phone call.
    Not agreeing with it, but I can partly see why manufacturers might sometimes be reluctant to jump through hoops to fix a customer's "malfunctioning" gun. Quite often, there's nothing wrong with the gun; the problem is the user. Paying to ship long guns back and forth, paying for ammunition to test it, paying somebody to shoot it and disassemble it and check it over, etc., adds up.

    Again, not saying I agree with companies not standing behind their product, because they should, but there are a lot of users out there who should be looking in the mirror in the troubleshooting process before immediately running to the manufacturer for a return shipping label.
    Last edited by Sanpete; 07-27-10 at 03:05. Reason: clarity

  4. #34
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    Thumbs up Same issue...

    Gents,

    Entertaining discussion.

    I to had a similar situation. I came home from being out of the country for awhile and had a couple of projects waiting for me.

    1. A Daniel Defense upper I'd bought through BCM. I was extermely excited about trying it out till I took it to the range and it failed to feed. Bummer. I got on the phone, called DD, they asked me to ship it back and within a week they called me and had figured out the problem(bolt carrier) and shipped it back to me. And I am happy to say it worked flawlessly.

    2. I became a proud owner of a Larue OBR. Similar issue, failed to feed. Fearing I was jinxed I called up Larue and they too asked me to ship it to them. Week later I get a call, gas block issue, and a tracking number telling me where it was on its way back home. Once again, worked flawlessly.

    3. I'm going to lump these two off-brand AK's together. Why, because they never really worked. (And if you were at a certain LAV AK class you might remember me messing with one of them) And are now someone else's problem.

    Point of my story, reputable companies treat you reputably.

    And make a good product.
    -Zef M.
    Sales Guy
    Shooters Supply, Fay, NC

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Many issues are user induced and can be addressed by reading the manual ahead of time. I know...what a crazy idea.
    Yup.



    Last edited by Quib; 07-27-10 at 06:28.
    “A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.” -Lao Tzu


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I'd like to say a few things. My intent here was not to bash SunDevil. It was to show different levels of customer service. It was also to impress upon members that they should attempt to have the manufacturer resolve the problem first.

    It's hard for anyone to make improvments if they are never told about the problem. How they proceed after that is up to them.

    The person with the SunDevil lower is a good friend whom I worked with in Iraq. We trusted each other and watched each others backs while we were in Al Anbar province. I have no doubt that he did it correctly as I have seen his previous work. Also I should have mentioned that he tried to install it not only with a Magpul supplied roll pin, but also a Colt roll pin. Neither one would go in w/o shaving material from inside the hole.
    I don't think your story does say very much about Sun Devil's customer service. If I sold a product and someone wanted me to replace it because they buggered it up, I wouldn't want to. Sun Devil is doing the right thing by inspecting the part before giving a replacement or refund. However, I agree that if the person on the telephone doesn't know what they are talking about they shouldn't be answering questions.
    It is irrelevant how good of a friend it is that damaged the lower. There are many people who have installed trigger guard pins previously and then broke an ear off of one. I don't see how it is possible to break the ear off if it is supported and the trigger guard is in place. You would have to apply enough force to deform the trigger guard or the material the ear is resting on to get the ear to break while supported. If the diameter of the hole is out of spec, Sun Devil will be able to see so.
    Dustin

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    You're not listening- Iraq Gunz knows all about his friend's problem and saw it. If he says it was more than some Fud banging the ears off then that is what it is. He included details about the holes being not in spec. If he says they weren't then they weren't. If he goes so far as to say it's a mil-spec kit and it shaved off material while trying to insert them then the case is closed.
    You need to read exactly what is typed before you post. IraqGunz saw a picture of the lower. There is no way to tell if something is slightly out of spec by a picture. The case is not closed until someone mics the lower and roll pins. There is also no way to prove that the ear was properly supported.
    Dustin

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezboy View Post
    You need to read exactly what is typed before you post. IraqGunz saw a picture of the lower. There is no way to tell if something is slightly out of spec by a picture. The case is not closed until someone mics the lower and roll pins. There is also no way to prove that the ear was properly supported.
    Dustin
    Dustin:

    I don't think you mean any harm, but please look at this whole thread and heed my warnings to others. You are calling the integrity of one of our mods, and an industry professional, in to question, however unintentional that may be.

    By default if IG believes his friend, who covered his six, when he says he supported the ear, and that it was shaving material and not just anodizing excesses, then we will give him and his friend the benefit of the doubt. Ok?

    Thanks,
    Ed
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Dustin:

    I don't think you mean any harm, but please look at this whole thread and heed my warnings to others. You are calling the integrity of one of our mods, and an industry professional, in to question, however unintentional that may be.

    By default if IG believes his friend, who covered his six, when he says he supported the ear, and that it was shaving material and not just anodizing excesses, then we will give him and his friend the benefit of the doubt. Ok?

    Thanks,
    Ed
    I am not calling on anyone's integrity be they a moderator, industry professional, or regular guy. I will give his friend the benefit of the doubt, but I don't want people saying the Sun Devil lower is out of spec until it is inspected and measured.
    Dustin

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezboy View Post
    I am not calling on anyone's integrity be they a moderator, industry professional, or regular guy.
    As I said, it may not be your intention, but factually there is really only one interpretation of your comments. "I do not believe what IG is saying...because I believe XXXXX......" That is a question of integrity.

    ...I don't want people saying the Sun Devil lower is out of spec until it is inspected and measured.
    Dustin
    I agree, so at this point we'll state that it is highly unusual that any material, that is noticeable, be removed while installing roll pins in the trigger guard hole or the bolt release hole. On all the forged lowers I've ever assembled, easily over 25, I have never seen any material of note be removed while installing these parts with known quality "mil spec" LPK's. Not once, ever. I have also seen dozens more assembled by others, and supervised on at least 10 more. I have seen some anodizing "flake" off while doing various things quickly to assemble lowers, but never material of note removed using quality lowers and quality LPKs.

    So maybe the lower is on the smaller/tighter side of spec and the LPK roll pin was on the larger side of spec but the fact remains that it's highly unusual based on the pool of total assemblies that just two of us in this thread have under our belt.

    Now with all that said, it's time to move away from this particular vein in this topic and get back to the actual topic at hand from this thread: Dealing with vendors, and giving them a chance to fix things before wrenching on them yourself.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 07-27-10 at 10:51.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

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