Still a role for the shotgun?

[terrymo]

I believe your pros and cons are accurate. I was issued my first 870 police model with wood furniture and a bead sight in 1986. As a patrol deputy back in the stone age, that was the only long gun we had available to us. Multiple wound channels at a specific range of distance, dispatching a charging vicious dog, or searching for a suspect in an area with heavy brush, being able to transition to different types of ammo---I think the shotgun had the edge. But those are very limited circumstances.

I am a CA POST certified instructor for handgun, shotgun and patrol rifle and these days I have been relegated to full time rangemaster. I mention that only to say I have some perspective regarding limited time, resources and a limited desire to train by some officers. I continue to get training on my own dime from reputable instructors several times per year on shotgun and AR. I personally enjoy shooting the shotgun more. Maybe because I am more familiar with it and maybe for some sentimental reasons.

With all that said, the reality for L.E. instructors, I believe, is shotgun training is an uphill battle. Fewer young officers have any exposure to weapons growing up. For them, the shotgun is not something they are familiar with, and many do not give it a fair chance.

I have an 870P and a Colt 6920. My humble opinion is all officers should be proficient with and have both a patrol rifle and shotgun at their disposal. But sadly in L.E. the number of shotguns being deployed will become very limited in the next 10 years I am afraid.

What the shotgun does well, it does very well. Forced to make a choice...I'll take a patrol rifle.

[Moose-Knuckle]

OP, also go and read up in the ballistic forum about what the good Doctor has to say about the matter.

[Dave_M]

I can think of a limited number of roles for a shotgun
-Breacher
-Taking winged game (or general hunting if a rifle isn't allowed, like my state)
-Competition
-HD if on a limited budget and/or living in a state where something better is regulated and/or illegal
-LTL use

ETA:
-Guarding captives

[Moose-Knuckle]

Here is another angle. . .

If I was indigent and could not afford much in the way of firearms I would purchase an inexpensive 12 gauge pump built by a reputable manufacture from a pawn broker. Multiple barrels lengths, chokes, and loads for everything under the sun are available.

I also like to think that shotguns like the AA-12 is bringing the scatter gun into the 21st century, much like the side by side coach guns did for the 19th century. Not much can resist 20 rounds of full-auto 12 guage.

[MarshallDodge]

For professional use I would rather have the carbine but if all I could afford was a $300 gun then an 870 or 500/590 would do the trick. The shotgun is easy to learn and very simple to run/keep running.

Shotguns seems to get more crap put on it than any other gun I have seen. Taking a $300 shotgun and adding $500 worth of accessories does not make one a better shooter. I always recommend buying a shotgun, putting a sling on it, then spend some money on training before lugging the gun down with a bunch of stuff.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good accessories out there for a shotgun but there is an equal amount of dead weight that can be added as well.

[RWK]

Shotguns seems to get more crap put on it than any other gun I have seen.

My observations don't agree with this. The AR is by far the most accessorized firearm I've ever seen.

Taking a $300 shotgun and adding $500 worth of accessories does not make one a better shooter.

The same can be said of any firearm.

[Detmongo]

well we still use them. all solo officers have them in thier squad cars. our ESU (swat) will use for perp searches in say a wooded area or backyard search. the shotgun will be around in the NYPD for quite some time.

[C4IGrant]

Does the SG have a role? I think so, but not as much as it once did. There is also a difference between .MIL, LE and Civy use. Since I am a civy, I will speak to only that.

For HD, the SG is a devastating tool for sure, but there are some concerns. The biggest one is over penetration. If you are using 00 BUCK, and have people in other rooms or neighbors close by, I would be very concerned about letting just one BB get out. The SG also struggles with hostage situations and or the need to pin point accuracy. We have also seen where pump shotguns get short stroked in relatively low stress, shoot house environments. Which leads me to the opinion that the only SG worth owning for HD is an auto loader and of those, the brand needs to start with the letter "B."

For me personally, the SG sits squarely behind the AR and Pistol for HD usage.


For those of you that are going to grab a SG for a bad situation, I would STRONGLY suggest taking a SG class (taught by a NONE quality instructor) and THEN log some time in a shoot house with one. I think many of you will most likely change your mind about using a SG for defensive purposes.


C4

[terrymo]

If you are L.E. or MIL the best kept secret in shotgun instruction or shotgun instructor certification is Bill Jeans (formerly with Gunsite) who owns Morrigan Consulting. His mantra is "I am not here to teach you to shoot a shotgun, I am here to teach you to fight with a shotgun" With both military and L.E. experience and many years of being an instructor he is the real deal.

[Mr. Smith]

I have seen all the posts in this thread.

I would like to know what formal training the group has and from who.