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Thread: Am I a paranoid gun cleaner?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoTex View Post
    In short: you're technically right, but it's a tiny detail that some people latch onto too much, and then use as an excuse to neglect their weapon, and that's where my concern is.
    Do tell us about the neglect that you've seen.

  2. #32
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    I guess my fear of damage sustained while cleaning stems from the more dramatic effects of improper cleaning techniques rather than frequency.
    Indeed, a fool jamming around their steel cleaning rod every which way destroying the chamber and muzzle can be a terrible thing whether it's their first cleaning or their five millionth.

  3. #33
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    Do tell us about the neglect that you've seen.
    On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

    Yeah, how's that for irony?
    Last edited by ChicagoTex; 08-02-10 at 17:24.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoTex View Post
    On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

    Yeah, how's that for irony?
    Man this is has always been a highly debatable subject,with extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
    So here is my ramble on the subject.

    Ive seen a number of pitted bolt tails here and over on ARFCOM due to lack of maintenance,so it does happen.The chrome chambers and bores on the AR's let alot of folks escape corrosion issues in that area.
    With that said I have seen numerous poorly maintained non-chromed pistol barrels and rifle barrels damaged by either undersizing of the bore due to surface rust and or pitted as a result.
    Ive seen bolt guns rust and pit bores in a two month time frame during hunting season due to environmentals and lack of attention.
    Ive also seen heavy corrosion damage to exterior surfaces from daily carry and poor PM.
    What folks dont consider most of the time is that the environment plays a huge role.For instance taking your weapon from a 70F house out into 90F+,and in my case matching humidity/dew points,the weapon will frost up like a cold brew.Same can be said for the reverse temperature situation.This also can affect ammuntion.If the weapon is not given some sort of attention it can take a toll.
    Then you have to also take into account some of us have acidic finger prints,large doses of sweat and acidic soils.
    Not to mention the crap that can end up in the bore from daily use,carry and transport.Ive seen everything from pine needles to potato chip crumbs in the bores of my weapons,and somehow they always manage to get right down against the bullet or into the chamber.
    Then there are parts that fail that should have been caught during a routine PM/inspection.
    Namely springs,fasteners,roll pins and damaged hard parts etc..
    So yes I have also seen damage to functional weapons from lack of inspection and maintenance.

    On the flip side I have also seen weapons damaged from ham fisted cleaning practices and poor back yard gunsmithing.
    Washed muzzles and serious finish damage to the parts enough to alter the dimensions and resulting functional issues.
    For instance I had a friend who was convinced that the best way to remove the carbon from his AR's bolt tail was to routinely run it on a wire brush wheel of the shop grinder.What he could not understand is that the bolt tail is a bearing surface and acts as part of a mechanical seal within the rear of the carrier gas chamber.Undersizing that area is not conducive to reliable function.Much more damaging than that little bit of carbon remaining on the bolt tail.
    For another example,I recently had to recut the crown on my uncles 7400 due to his ham fisted cleaning rod technique.Simple use of a muzzle guide would have prevented the damage,but not consider until too late.

    The most common things I see folks do that are harmful to the weapon and its finish is using metal objects as scrapers and steel brushes in an attempt to get that last little bit of carbon off the parts.There is absolutely no need to use screw drivers,picks,spring plates from stripper clips,paper clips,nails,dirll bits or steel brushes etc. to clean anything on the weapon.If the weapon is routinely PM'd and most importantly lubricated frequently then hard carbon deposits will be limited as the CLP with work to keep it soft and displaced within the lubricant film.
    Same can be said for routine use of harsh or caustic solvents.Ive seen a number of nice bright bores etched from excessive/longterm use of strong ammonia based solvents.

    The sharpest object I use to clean my weapon is a finger nail and maybe a chop stick to push a patch around in tight areas.Other than that I use a standard USGI tooth brush,chamber brush,bore brush and CLP with patches.Every once in awhile I use a bit of Hoppe's #9 to get the layer of Wolf poop from the bore.
    If I have a large amount of carbon build up on the bolt tail,gas rings or similar,I'll soak the carbon off in CLP or Hoppe's No.9.

    I dont personally know anyone who tries to do a white glove inspection type cleaning anymore.In fact with most of the AR receivers coming coated in dry film lube nowadays,I dont see how one could reach white glove clean unless the dry film lube is removed.
    I will also say I have never personally damaged a weapon,or had a properly PM'd weapon fail to function.If I had, I would have to rethink my PM procedure and techniques.
    So I believe that having a basic PM routine and inspection parts is an advised practice.Letting a weapon run for several thousand rounds with no inspection of parts and lube only may be fine for a training/range gun.But I could not be confident enough to want to stake my life on it over the long haul.Parts have to be somewhat clean to inspect them,so its two birds killed with the same stone in my book.

    What I guess it all comes down to is what works for each individual and what confidence each of us have in our weapons and skill set.
    My last word on weapons PM is its like everything in life,do it in moderation or it becomes excessive.If you dont think there is a need to do PM on your weapons routinely,thats fine too roll with what you got.
    So I guess there are two sides of the coin to look at here,but its not worth arguing over and thats for sure.
    Glock Certified Armorer
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    Just finished a Defensive Edge course in Princeton today, lots of shooting in lots of rain. I added a liberal amount of WD40 to the above.
    Did you ever think about Break-Free in lieu of WD? Our Armour would kill if he saw a can of WD-40 in the platoon area. It is the penetrating properties that are harmful to metal surfaces.

    Just my $.02 on WD-40

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoTex View Post
    On another forum not to be named but not directly AR related I came across a lot of armchair armorers who would, out of one side of their mouth, claim that they needed to clean as little as possible as not to damage their gun from excess cleaning, but at the same time complain about most major service autopistols being unreliable for them because they'd linked the activities of lubrication and cleaning together. And since they didn't clean their gun because it would "damage it", they also didn't lube it.

    Yeah, how's that for irony?
    I would consider not properly lubing your weapon(s) as one of the most negligent and dumbest things an individual could do. Cleaning and lubing, are two separate processes.

    Don't confuse proper cleaning techniques (which their is a thread here) and ridiculously ignorant cleaning techniques which damages the weapon.

    Some weapons need more cleaning than others. Those that don't have correct chambers (Read .223 tight chambers, BM, Oly, Stag) that often get popped primers or have problems shooting steel cased ammo (stuck case) often need to clean the chamber more than those that have true 5.56 chambers.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by platoonDaddy View Post
    Did you ever think about Break-Free in lieu of WD? Our Armour would kill if he saw a can of WD-40 in the platoon area. It is the penetrating properties that are harmful to metal surfaces.

    Just my $.02 on WD-40
    Never ever heard of that.

    It is a Water Displacement, 40th attempt. It is a light lube which prevents corrosion. It also turns into a yellow/orange paste after a while. I've used WD-40 to hose down my BCGs and uppers forever. It does well to break up the crude. Just use it as a cleaner, then use any flavor weapon lube to properly lube the BCG. Since I ran out of my last can of WD-40, I have made the switch to "ballistol" to perform the same function.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  8. #38
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    I'm a paranoid gun cleaner too. I spend way much more time cleaning my guns (yes, after every time I shoot them). I clean the bores till I get an almost mirror shine and I wipe the bolts and chambers til I see no more black/gray/brown whatever color on them and coat just about everything internal with gun oil or CLP. I'm just not satisfied until they're spotless, which I wish I could break away from because I spend hours on a single gun sometimes.
    Last edited by Jake Bauer; 08-03-10 at 01:03.
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  9. #39
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    Really good answers so far... definitely reconsidering some things.. and relieved I don't have to toothbrush clean it every shoot.

  10. #40
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    te however that regular lubrication is necessary for reliable operation, how much and where depend on the gun you're running. In the case of the AR, several forum members with way more experience than I have already posted guides on the subject.
    Mine stays wet enough that there is a wet ring around the pins and upper/lower junction once I start shooting from the lube the BCG sheds. I stay at the point where my BCG looks like it has a sheen on it, and before shooting, will add a couple of drops to the gas ports. If I'm shooting Simunitions through my rifle, I'll run a line of Slip2000 EWL down the visible length of the BCG in the ejection port.

    The most religious thing I do as far as cleaning is to run the snake down the bore after a session of sims as the projectiles leave residue behind. I know the first live round out will probably take all that with it, but the idea of planning to put a live round down a barrel which I KNOW has some kind of obstruction in it makes me a uncomfortable.

    Otherwise, the most regular thing I do is check my BCG when I pull it out of my cruiser to make sure the GA heat hasn't dried the Slip 2000 out. The EWL is better than CLP about drying out, so I only need to reapply once a month or so, which I usually end up doing in the course of prepping the gun for firing.

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