DHS/ICE requires 135gr .40S&W load?

[Zhukov]

I'm having a discussion with someone in regards to the 12" penetration depth minimum, where he pointed to the fact that ICE uses 135gr bullets and only requires 8" of penetration:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=1

Can anyone confirm that DHS/ICE actually uses that load? If so, why are they going against established FBI data?

[4thPointOfContact]

DHS may be saying that's the minimum that they will accept, but is it necessarily all that the 135-grain will do?





Neither of those Exceeds 12 inches of course.

[kmrtnsn]

This was covered a year ago. ICE DOES NOT use the 135gr .40 S&W round. This round was specified by Customs and Border Protection, Office of Field Operations. Those are the blue uniformed people at the air, sea, and land ports of entry; not the Border Patrol. ICE National Firearms Tactics and Training Unit (NFTTU) is the DHS weapons and ammunition procurement department. Just because ICE NFTTU bought something doesn't mean that ICE gets the product.

Read this from the RFQ, the specified weapon is the HK P2000, which is not an ICE firearm, section 3.16 describes the ballistic requirements for the round.

https://www.fbo.gov/download/0a5/0a5...ttachments.pdf

[Entropy]

This was covered a year ago. ICE DOES NOT use the 135gr .40 S&W round. This round was specified by Customs and Border Protection, Office of Field Operations. Those are the blue uniformed people at the air, sea, and land ports of entry; not the Border Patrol. ICE National Firearms Tactics and Training Unit (NFTTU) is the DHS weapons and ammunition procurement department. Just because ICE NFTTU bought something doesn't mean that ICE gets the product.

Read this from the RFQ, the specified weapon is the HK P2000, which is not an ICE firearm, section 3.16 describes the ballistic requirements for the round.

https://www.fbo.gov/download/0a5/0a5...ttachments.pdf

+1

Border Patrol switched to a 180gr JHP from Federal in December of 2009. While at FLETC I talked with a few BP and CBP range instructors. BP is happy with the 180gr load, and CBP guys said they are working out the procurement paperwork in order to piggyback onto the BP 180gr contract. I'm not sure why they contracted the 135gr load in 2008, but the CBP guys were as baffled as I was. Sometimes, some incredibly idiotic equipment ideas come out of Federal agencies. I didn't talk to any ICE guys, but rumor has it they are wanting to get on the BP contract as well.

[kmrtnsn]

ICE switched to the 180gr .40 last year as well. I'll shoot it at quals but prefer the older 155gr for duty carry. I've seen it in action and know it works.

[Zhukov]

This was covered a year ago. ICE DOES NOT use the 135gr .40 S&W round. This round was specified by Customs and Border Protection, Office of Field Operations. Those are the blue uniformed people at the air, sea, and land ports of entry; not the Border Patrol. ICE National Firearms Tactics and Training Unit (NFTTU) is the DHS weapons and ammunition procurement department. Just because ICE NFTTU bought something doesn't mean that ICE gets the product.

Read this from the RFQ, the specified weapon is the HK P2000, which is not an ICE firearm, section 3.16 describes the ballistic requirements for the round.

https://www.fbo.gov/download/0a5/0a5...ttachments.pdf

Thanks for the info. I missed the discussion; sorry for rehashing it.

[kmrtnsn]

No worries, the procurement practices of the USG are a mystery, even to those who work there. I commented on the previous thread because there was some additional information posted there you might want to check out.

[MikeO]

About 5 yrs ago, the feds contracted for up to 26 million rounds of Fed 135 HST. Not sure how much of that they actually bought, or who actually ended up w it.

[Jake'sDad]

About 5 yrs ago, the feds contracted for up to 26 million rounds of Fed 135 HST. Not sure how much of that they actually bought, or who actually ended up w it.

Hopefully, nobody that needs it for anything serious.......