Training with airsoft?....please don't ban me

[xcibes]

I know I will probabluy get the boot for posting this but I will try anyway...I am serious though.

I have a very difficult time getting to the range but I would still like to train with the M4/6920...I know there is much disdain for airsoft in this forum but I understand that the new gas blowback airsoft guns are pretty awesome in that the bolt carrier cycles, and weight is very close to the real deal. I was thinking of buying one of this to practice at home between range trips. I am not familiar with the airsoft stuff out there so if anyone has any suggestions as to what model/brand to get and aby training tips, it would be much appreciated.

[GeorgiaBoy]

Here's my 2 cents, since I once pondered about this myself.

While there is no airsoft weapon out there can mimic the exact feel of a real gun going off, I think that training with a "high dollar" airsoft M4 that could provide the blowback action and real steel parts and weight can be viable under a certain amount of circumstances such as yours to be able to train.

Its NOT going to feel like the real thing, and the good points is that it can sort of help you with basic muscle memory of the handling of the gun, magazine changing, and perhaps close range shooting, but its not going to be able to train you with distance shooting, recoil control, malfunctions, true magazine weight, or flinch/trigger control.

Sure, its worth the shot, and its better than nothing if you, like you said, aren't able to get to the range often. Basic muscle memory would and weapon maneuvering be the only thing you would benefit out of it though..

[deparis]

Here's my 2 cents, since I once pondered about this myself.

While there is no airsoft weapon out there can mimic the exact feel of a real gun going off, I think that training with a "high dollar" airsoft M4 that could provide the blowback action and real steel parts and weight can be viable under a certain amount of circumstances such as yours to be able to train.

Its NOT going to feel like the real thing, and the good points is that it can sort of help you with basic muscle memory of the handling of the gun, magazine changing, and perhaps close range shooting, but its not going to be able to train you with distance shooting, recoil control, malfunctions, true magazine weight, or flinch/trigger control.

Sure, its worth the shot, and its better than nothing if you, like you said, aren't able to get to the range often. Basic muscle memory would and weapon maneuvering be the only thing you would benefit out of it though..

Couldn't have said it any better. It's not going to be the same, but it's better than nothing.

[Gunfighter 9]

I would stay away from airsoft. I have owned three different, high end airsoft guns, and each of them was a piece of junk. You are every bit as likely to get one that brakes as you are to get a functioning one. Quality control on airsoft guns is abismal. All of the guns I owned had major components break within a month of owning them, and not from extended or rough use. The metals used are of such low quality they wouldn't be used by a reputable soda company to make cans. They literally break under their own weight.

Also, as someone already stated they don't do a good job of replicating things like recoil, muzzle flash, weight, etc. I understand your problem with getting to a range. Here in Lincoln, the only public range to shoot a rifle on is an hour away in Omaha, and it only offers 25 yard lanes.

[subzero]

I have a very difficult time getting to the range but I would still like to train with the M4/6920...I know there is much disdain for airsoft in this forum but I understand that the new gas blowback airsoft guns are pretty awesome in that the bolt carrier cycles, and weight is very close to the real deal. I was thinking of buying one of this to practice at home between range trips. I am not familiar with the airsoft stuff out there so if anyone has any suggestions as to what model/brand to get and aby training tips, it would be much appreciated.

The question I think you have to ask yourself is what is the airsoft gun good at replacing. That is, where can airsoft give you real value in training or practice. To me, an airsoft gun (talking about GBBs here, none of that electric nonsense) is very much like a .22 kit on a rifle or handgun. Very fun to shoot, inexpensive and you feel like a friggin rockstar because it has no recoil and everything is easy. Also like most 22 kits, your mag changes are going to end up being different for whatever reason.

So an airsoft gun is good (IMO) for practicing trigger control. So it's akin then, to dry fire except you get a bit of a bang and it's self-resetting.

Thing is, airsoft is inaccurate by nature, so it's nearly impossible to read a target to figure out what you did wrong. You have to resort to calling your shots, which I'm not a good enough shot to do.

I think airsoft really shines for doing Force on Force training. For other stuff, I think it's more for fun than real practice value.

BUT re-reading your post now I see you're not asking for that. I would only advise to try and avoid anything made in China, but that's nearly impossible now. All the new stuff comes out of China (Hong Kong) now, so there's almost no avoiding it. The GBB M4 market is pretty diverse but there's only one or two models made in Japan and (go figure) they're far and way the most expensive.

This is a halfway decent spot to do some reading about the various gas systems, or ask a question or two: http://www.gasguns.info/forum/index.php

I would stay away from airsoft. I have owned three different, high end airsoft guns, and each of them was a piece of junk. You are every bit as likely to get one that brakes as you are to get a functioning one. Quality control on airsoft guns is abismal. All of the guns I owned had major components break within a month of owning them, and not from extended or rough use. The metals used are of such low quality they wouldn't be used by a reputable soda company to make cans. They literally break under their own weight.

What's your definition of "high end"?

[Failure2Stop]

Airsoft offers some viable training opportunities, but marksmanship is not one of them.

[Byron]

While Airsoft is often used as a derogatory term around here ("Those are Airsoft-grade parts"), I believe that is more reflective of the Airsoft culture than it is the tools themselves and their potential. There are tons of guys out there who spend thousands of dollars on Airsoft gear that serves no functional purpose: basically dressing up like modern battle reenactors. Then they go play around in the woods and want to spend free time talking about weapons they've never actually handled the real version of.

Some of these same "dress up" types make their way into the actual shooting community and come on here asking about bolt-on gadgets that are crappy quality but look just like real military items (and are therefore somehow desirable).

This is the type of Airsofter that I think the serious folk around here hold in contempt. That does not mean, however, that Airsoft weapons can not be used for legitimate purposes. As noted, they have a solid place in a FoF curriculum, especially for groups who do not have access to Sims guns. The same caveats apply to them as any other simulated weapon, of course: the FoF has to be well constructed and not "gamed."

I think airsoft really shines for doing Force on Force training. For other stuff, I think it's more for fun than real practice value.

Airsoft offers some viable training opportunities, but marksmanship is not one of them.

I think these comments sum it up well.

[Gunfighter 9]

Subzero, all three guns were Classic Army brand guns. All three suffered broken parts, mostly cosmetic stuff like sights, and charging handles. (keep in mind these parts are mostly cosmetic on airsoft guns) IMO, airsoft has no place in training, because as someone mentioned earlier, airsoft is mostly made up of teenagers who think real combat is just like Mondern Warfare 2, and over weight wannabees. I too once thought airsoft could serve as a valuable force on force training tool. However, the first time I showed up to a game where everyone was carrying magazines with 200 plus round capacities, and watched people run around like they were playing a live action first person shooter, I realized the error of my way.

[Byron]

Subzero, all three guns were Classic Army brand guns. All three suffered broken parts, mostly cosmetic stuff like sights, and charging handles. (keep in mind these parts are mostly cosmetic on airsoft guns)

There are plenty of Airsoft weapons where the moving parts are fully operational and in no way "cosmetic."

IMO, airsoft has no place in training, because as someone mentioned earlier, airsoft is mostly made up of teenagers who think real combat is just like Mondern Warfare 2, and over weight wannabees.

In my book, this is kind of like condemning all guns just because some yahoos treat them like toys.

Using Airsoft for true FoF is all about the proper setup: you can't just arrive at a weekend battle and expect that guys will have the same objective that you do. To train with them, you need an actual training group: mindset is critical.

Some treat Airsoft like a sport, gaming it like paintball. Others can use the weapons for training purposes, as a lower cost alternative to Simunitions. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There's a difference between the sport and the weapons though: that was the point I was trying to illustrate in bringing up the teens and weekend games.

[Gunfighter 9]

Byron, I think you misread or misunderstood my point. I am not condeming airsoft. It is fine for its intended purpose, which is for kids and wannabees to pretend to be super cool, uber elite, ninjas. I only dismissed it as a training tool, and largely because it does not adequately replicate the manula of arms associated with the operation of a real firearm. If people want to spend thousands of dollars on toys and shoot each other in the forest with plastic bb's, then more power to them. However, I see no point in gun owners wasting money on airsoft under the impression that they are gaining valuable training.