Why the .45GAP? What am I missing?

[MarshallDodge]

Have you ever seen a Glock 21?

[Exiledviking]

The G37 has more snap to it than the .40S&W as it is a more powerful cartridge shoved into a 9mm action. I'd rather use .40S&W than the .45gap.

I must disagree. In the same size Glock pistols, the .45GAP has less snap to it than the .40S&W. The .40S&W in the Glock pistols is the worst as far as snappy recoil goes. The .40S&W has about 10-20% more energy at the muzzle than the .45GAP. I for one actually like the .45GAP. Mind you, I have 5 times as many .45ACP pistols as I do .45GAP pistols.

[jmart]

Have you ever seen a Glock 21?

Many times. Have you?

[Entropy]

I must disagree. In the same size Glock pistols, the .45GAP has less snap to it than the .40S&W. The .40S&W in the Glock pistols is the worst as far as snappy recoil goes. The .40S&W has about 10-20% more energy at the muzzle than the .45GAP. I for one actually like the .45GAP. Mind you, I have 5 times as many .45ACP pistols as I do .45GAP pistols.

Comparable sectional density loadings. Compare mild shooting 230gr GAP loadings to 180gr .40 loadings and they have similar recoil characteristics which is closer to .45acp.......a slow push. However, in split times and side by side comparison I routinely shot faster with the .40S&W. Then of course you have only 10+1 rounds in the GAP versus 15+1 in the .40 with a pistol of the same size.

If you are using 155gr .40, then yes it is snappy. Fewer and fewer agencies are using the 155gr loading though and the standard is shifting to the 180gr. FBI, DEA, ATF, ICE, BP, DOI, USCG,.....just to name a few agencies converting entirely to the 180gr loading.

[Ssarge]

According to a bud at FHP, the academy did ballistics tests and found the .45GAP to be superior to the .40. They also supposedly had some failure to stop with the .40. (in my area we have had numerous shootings with the .40 from Sig P229 and Glock 22 since '93. The vast majority of shootings have proved to be fatal and I am aware of only one failure to stop even though she did drop the pistol so it de-escilated. FHP just shot and killed a suicidal man in a shootout with the Beretta 96G a couple of weeks ago without issue. I got to review the detailed reports of the neighboring county's sheriff's office shootings in 2001. I got to look at the recovered rounds and had full access to the detailed report of the shooting because our training director, a retired FBI SAC reviewed the shootings at the request of the states attorneys office. I was our range master and got to review the files as well. The
.40 Ranger SXT had excellent results. At the time we had gone with the FBIs 165gr Ranger SXT (a former training officer stuck us with it) and we got rid of it after failure to penetrate a windshield at hood range and 90 degree angle. The round shed it's jacket and the lead core went into the bad guys shoulder shallow enough that he plucked it out and only needed a band aid to fix the wound. I was the arresting officer on that one. We then went to the 180gr SXT and had 1 shot stops in 3 shootings with one being fatal. I don't know where the FHP is getting failure to stop except with piss poor shot placement with the .40? Besides I had much rather have the 15 extra rounds you'll carry over the GAP. (3 mags of 15 rds vs 3 mags of 10 rds) I just see the GAP as a solution looking for a problem to address. If you want .45acp get a Glock 21sf!

[200RNL]

According to a bud at FHP, the academy did ballistics tests and found the .45GAP to be superior to the .40. They also supposedly had some failure to stop with the .40.

I guess, "as long as the caliber starts with the number 4", will only apply to the .45 from now on .

The caliber debates never end. One would think that if agency 'A' finds a load effective, then agency 'B', 'C' and 'D' would obtain the same result.

At least this exercise in splitting hairs benefits the firearms industry.

[Entropy]

According to a bud at FHP, the academy did ballistics tests and found the .45GAP to be superior to the .40. They also supposedly had some failure to stop with the .40

Well.....yeah. Of course the .45 caliber does better in FBI protocols than the .40. Bigger wound volume, and more momentum to go through things like windshields. However, even in comparison to the 9mm the differences are SOOOOO minor. Penetration is the key component, and with modern ammo they all are about equal.

Give FHP enough time, and they will suffer failures to stop with the .45. However, they won't blame it on the caliber in this case, because they cannot viably go any bigger. Having failures to stop with the 9mm or .40 gives the agency a scape goat to blame their hardware(caliber). It's easy to say that there is a hardware problem, and then correct it with an upgrade. In reality, the problem was likely that the bullets were not hitting the right areas.....which is a software issue. You cannot fix a software problem with a hardware solution.......and sometimes you just fricken can't get the bullets to go where you need them to based on your scenario.

[jmart]

The .45 GAP is a solution desperately in search of a problem.
The problem, of course, is that the .45 GAP has no real advantages over the .45 ACP, and ammunition availability is minuscule compared to the .45 ACP.

The .45 GAP has, essentially, no chance of being successful in the markekplace.

From a dept/LEO perspective or from a civilian perspective?

[Heavy Metal]

From a dept/LEO perspective or from a civilian perspective?

I am going out on a realy thick limb and venture both.

As Buckskin Joe said: it is a solution in search of a problem.

The problem is the problem was Gaston Glock's ego.

As I quoted Rand Simberg, an Aerospace Engineer, in another thread:

"A good engineer solves a problem, a great one avoids it."

The GAP falls in the former, the Glock 21SF falls in the latter.

[200RNL]

Give FHP enough time, and they will suffer failures to stop with the .45. However, they won't blame it on the caliber in this case, because they cannot viably go any bigger

Well, they could try to locate a cache of those .577 revolvers the British made a hundred years ago......