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Thread: So the ole ATF stopped by....

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by d90king View Post
    Belmont, I honestly don't think you did anything wrong at all. I think you did what the vast majority of guys on here would do if they opened the door to a couple of badges first thing in the AM...

    Its easy to talk tough and say chuck you farley, but when the event happens in real time and you have nothing to hide, I don't think you're any different from most of us on here. If they became antagonistic or unprofessional and made allegations, then I am sure your attitude would have changed.

    You have to do what's best for you and your family. Period, and if somebody judges your actions thats their problem.

    I think what most find scary is what occurred, not how you handled it. After reflecting on some of JW's and BC's posts it certainly doesn't give you warm fuzzies when you think about it over time....

    Its easy to sit behind a screen and Monday morning it without having gone through the experience first hand...
    The problem with talking with law enforcement as the subject of any investigation without counsel is that you can be as clean as a whistle, and the investigating officers/detectives/agents/whomever can be as honest and as sincere in their desire to see the actual criminal charged...and things can go extraordinarily bad for you.

    At some point waiving your constitutional rights becomes the ballsy move.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    No he isn't.
    Since its rude to ignore direct questions...................


    I wasnt talking about the overall incident when I made the "reading into" comment. That was made in reference to the agent talking about someone that used to live across the street from the OP.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    Consider this scenario...

    The ATF shows up at a dealer and asks for all of the 4473's. What is the dealer going to do? Say "no"? Even though none of them would, consider that, for sake of argument, one does say "no." The ATF leaves and then comes back with a warrant and they get them anyways. Any method they use to get the 4473's from the dealer is legal, so the term "legal" is meaningless.

    They then thumb through them and sort them by name. Wash, rinse, repeat at every dealer within a 100 mile radius. They then make a file on you, and knock on your door with ALL of your firearms purchase history, even though a registry is illegal.

    It may not be "technically" illegal, but it goes against the spirit of the law and circumvents the entire reason that we don't have a firearms registry. I'm sure if enough people started a case, they could take it to court.

    But anyways, what can you one do...
    Yep. We basically have a de facto national registry maintained by FFLs and subject to examination whenever the BATFE feels like it.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    Ok. Do you see any problem with closing the door and NOT talking to them?
    Contrary to the popular belief of some that I'm some die-hard TBL'er; no I dont have an issue with people that dont want to cooperate in an investigation. I run into all the time and it doesnt phase me a bit.

  5. #105
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    Here is the "business card" the lead agent left. Redacted name, and PH#'s.





  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    No he isn't. Federal agents coming to see you, with a dossier on you and your property and demanding to see it, along with thinly veiled threats, is not acceptable. If you have the goods on somebody, go get a warrant. This sort of thing is nothing more than a harassing fishing expedition.
    +1 to these comments.

    SPOT ON.

  7. #107
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    This is getting personal awfully quick for me. Can't we discuss the bigger issues without coming down to personal defenses stemming from previous posts in the thread?

    Pretty please?
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  8. #108
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    ETAon't think I was really going the route Shivan was concerned about but I redacted it nonetheless.
    Last edited by thopkins22; 08-12-10 at 22:38.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    TBig box stores seem to get away with it easily though.
    I work at a big box FFL, we got fined $25K (I believe) for errors found during an ATF audit I was involved in a couple of years ago (not my errors ).

    They could have easily fired me and the entire management staff if they wanted, but we lucked out. On a related note, Walmart pulled guns from ALL Las Vegas stores except one (out of probably 40-50 stores). Big box stores don't really get away with much.

    Jay

    ETA: By "they" I meant our corporate office
    Last edited by dookie1481; 08-12-10 at 22:54.
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but in the very least you need a beer."
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  10. #110
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    My wife used to work for Walmart. It is my understanding that Walmart was doing away with most firearms sales due to the fact that they hire idiots and simply put them behind the counter with minimal training. They then wonder why they have problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by dookie1481 View Post
    I work at a big box FFL, we got fined $25K (I believe) for errors found during an ATF audit I was involved in a couple of years ago (not my errors ).

    They could have easily fired me and the entire management staff if they wanted, but we lucked out. On a related note, Walmart pulled guns from ALL Las Vegas stores except one (out of probably 40-50 stores). Big box stores don't really get away with much.

    Jay

    ETA: By "they" I meant our corporate office



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