Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 143

Thread: So the ole ATF stopped by....

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,066
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    My wife used to work for Walmart. It is my understanding that Walmart was doing away with most firearms sales due to the fact that they hire idiots and simply put them behind the counter with minimal training. They then wonder why they have problems.
    Yeah that's the gist of it. My understanding is that the ATF went easy on them in exchange for them cleaning up their firearms sales (i.e. pulling firearms from most of their stores). I believe that the store managers have discretion over whether or not they sell firearms.

    Jay
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but in the very least you need a beer."
    — Frank Zappa

    If the gun goes dry I use my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my teeth. I have only one rule - Start one job and see it through - The universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers. Multi tasking doesn't work in business or in gunfighting.
    - Michael de Bethencourt

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    7488 ft.
    Posts
    2,458
    Feedback Score
    18 (100%)
    This whole ATF gun smuggling escapade is ridiculous. The Mex gangs get their guns from the Mex army and cops. Just look at the loads of M16s the cartels use.

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,829
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Folks, it is absolutely true that there are people running guns to the mexican cartel dumbasses who are causing all sorts of problems. I have absolutely zero problem with the BATFE using reasonable methods to target and prosecute those gunrunners.

    I simply don't consider this sort of behavior reasonable just as I don't consider asking male between the age of 18 and 46 to submit DNA evidence to the police to solve a rape case, or asking people to hand over their AR15 rifles so they can be tested to eliminate you as a potential DC sniper suspect. Dragnets irk me. Since I'm the law-abiding, tax paying, wholesome type whose worst criminal offense has been driving on an expired registration, I get rather perturbed when I'm expected to prove to the government's satisfaction that I'm not a scumbag or risk the chance that they will take an even keener interest in me and do God-knows-what to my life in the process.

    A BATFE agent investigating me for gunrunning would be the height of stupidity...especially since I can drive them to a trailer park a few miles away where they can watch living, breathing, in-the-flesh mexican gangsters coming and going and probably develop a solid lead that would actually accomplish something.

    I'm as pro law enforcement as a person can get...but this kind of stuff crosses a line.

    ...and to followup on what Shivan said earlier, let's avoid being personal here. The people on this site, whether they wear a badge or not, aren't the source of these kinds of problems.
    Last edited by John_Wayne777; 08-13-10 at 01:37.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Desert Southwest
    Posts
    610
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by pilotguyo540 View Post
    That's not how this country is supposed to work. I will save the political tirade for later. Until next time...be afraid.
    Exactly. Scarey stuff... This isn't communist China.

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Heres some key indicators according to the ATF:


    Want to buy a large number of
    the same model firearm, or
    similar firearms.

    Choose only tactical type semiautomatic rifles (.223 or
    7.62x39) and large frame semiautomatic
    pistols (.38 Super, 9mm, .45 and 5.7mm)



    More at: http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-3317-6.pdf



    So if you live in a border state, and have quite a few AR's or AK's be prepared to have this happen to you. This reminds me of that FBI "ring wing extremist" flier they had where doing completely legal activities makes you a potential criminal. Believing in, and exercising your rights makes you a target in an investigation.

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,571
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    This reminds me of that FBI "ring wing extremist" flier they had where doing completely legal activities makes you a potential criminal. Believing in, and exercising your rights makes you a target in an investigation.
    Yea, this is the same government that has you tabbed as a possible threat to the homeland just for being honorably discharged, don't forget. I guess maybe this whole incident really isn't that shocking.
    Last edited by parishioner; 08-13-10 at 11:37.

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    2,521
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    I'm simply amazed what folks will do to sacrifice their freedoms...REALLY, how much money is your name & honor worth.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    South Texas Gun Seizures Tied to Ex-Drug Agent

    Friday, August 13, 2010 | Borderland Reporter Gerardo
    By Guillermo Contreras
    San Antonio Express-News


    Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics undercover agent Francisco Javier Reyes Luna is facing three counts of federal firearm violations.


    Three firearms seizures in South Texas this year, totaling 131 weapons headed toward Mexico, appeared unrelated, until federal agents traced several of the weapons to an unlikely source.

    This week, agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives arrested a now-former agent with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs on charges that he bought and sold high-powered guns for illegal export to Mexico.


    more here:

    http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/0...ied-to-ex.html
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."
    Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941




    "A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but a foolish man's heart directs him toward the left."
    Ecclesiastes 10:2:

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by jman4427 View Post
    Yea, this is the same government that has you tabbed as a possible threat to the homeland just for being honorably discharged, don't forget. I guess maybe this whole incident really isn't that shocking.


    If anyone has any NFA stuff the ATF has a legimate authority to see those. But I doubt that really has anything to do with this. Basically if you buy some handguns, and some "tactical semi auto's" its suspicious. An ATF agent is one of the few LEO that have the legal authority to request for NFA forms, and you have to give them to them for examination upon request. Local LEO not so much but it would probably make your life easier if you showed it to them, and explained what it is to them. Many local LEO's have no clue about NFA firearms laws, and Ive talked to a couple who had no idea it was legal to own these items. Actually I just gave away a dog to a local sheriff's deputy, and he met me wearing a Larue hat. We talked about guns for about 20 minutes, and he had no idea about CHL reciprocity. Now I carry a printout of what states TX recognizes because it would just be my luck to get hemmed up because an LEO didn't have the training on our laws.


    I just don't like something like owning some guns being called suspicious, and the fact they are using the FFL system as a sort of registry instead of maintaining their own. I don't think dealer records should be able to be confiscated unless they are investigating a crime that has already occurred. Now they are using those FFL records to comb for possible crimes, and then going to people's homes without a knowing if a crime ever occurred. The Feds are doing this, and yet the DOJ thinks its illegal for a lawman in Arizona to ask a person if they are an American citizen or not? If we had a secure border there would be no need for this "Project Gunrunner". To top it off this is being paid for out of the "Stimulus Bill". Yeah they are really stimulating the economy by hassling people over legally purchased firearms.

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,299
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    If anyone has any NFA stuff the ATF has a legimate authority to see those.
    Not really, and not nearly to the extent that many people on the internet seem to believe. Legal ownership of NFA items does not alter the 4th or 5th Amendments, and does not give the ATF special license to show up and start questioning you unannounced.

    There is a lot of rumor and bullshit out there about whether owning NFA items opens you up to warrantless inspections, etc. It doesn't. End of story.


    An ATF agent is one of the few LEO that have the legal authority to request for NFA forms, and you have to give them to them for examination upon request. Local LEO not so much but it would probably make your life easier if you showed it to them, and explained what it is to them. Many local LEO's have no clue about NFA firearms laws, and Ive talked to a couple who had no idea it was legal to own these items.
    Not to open another can of worms that gets rehashed periodically in the NFA forum, but state/local LEOs do in fact have the authority to demand to see your forms, at least in effect. Every state I've ever looked up has a state law that bans or restricts NFA items unless they are properly registered via the NFA. Which in turn means that if you don't produce a form to the state/local LEO, you're likely to win a ride downtown.

    The broader point in all of this is that shutting up and then closing the door or walking away (after clarifying that you are free to go if there is any question), and keeping a low profile with your firearms in public and visible areas of your house, is the easiest way to live. Don't talk to them, don't give them a reason to talk to you.

  10. #120
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    Not really, and not nearly to the extent that many people on the internet seem to believe. Legal ownership of NFA items does not alter the 4th or 5th Amendments, and does not give the ATF special license to show up and start questioning you unannounced.

    There is a lot of rumor and bullshit out there about whether owning NFA items opens you up to warrantless inspections, etc. It doesn't. End of story.




    Not to open another can of worms that gets rehashed periodically in the NFA forum, but state/local LEOs do in fact have the authority to demand to see your forms, at least in effect. Every state I've ever looked up has a state law that bans or restricts NFA items unless they are properly registered via the NFA. Which in turn means that if you don't produce a form to the state/local LEO, you're likely to win a ride downtown.

    The broader point in all of this is that shutting up and then closing the door or walking away (after clarifying that you are free to go if there is any question), and keeping a low profile with your firearms in public and visible areas of your house, is the easiest way to live. Don't talk to them, don't give them a reason to talk to you.


    Well no its not waving your 4th Amendment rights to own an NFA item but you do have to show them the forms if they ask. No they cannot enter your home at will, search your car, etc.

    Ive read the TX NFA laws, and there is no mandatory requirement to show NFA forms. Yes doing so would be the prudent thing to do but its not the same requirements if an ATF agent asks to see them. In effect, yes, but you aren't violating any laws if you say no. Yes, that may mean you go for a ride if you refuse because they can arrest you until they figure out if they are legal or not. Im just saying on "paper" there is no requirement for local LEO but in "reality" you'll probably be in for a bad few days if you don't.


    From ATF:


    Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration. The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm
    registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of
    registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or
    investigator, upon request.184 Proof of registration would be on a Form 1 registering a firearm to its
    maker, Form 2 registering a firearm to an importer or manufacturer, or a Form 3, 4, or 5 showing
    registration of a firearm to a transferee.
    Last edited by Belmont31R; 08-13-10 at 12:56.

Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •