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Thread: So the ole ATF stopped by....

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Yeah its not very fun to be woken out of a dead sleep to my wife saying the ATF was at the door. I went from dead asleep to heart pounding in about half a second...lol
    Your wife knows how to get your ass out of bed in hurry now..

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post

    Now the BATFE is showing up at people's houses over this Mexico bullshit? Cops in Arizona can't inquire about someone's immigration status without the ****ing DOJ suing them over it, but the BATFE can show up on your doorstep asking for your guns and that's perfectly OK.
    Damn, now that's funny- because its true.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR View Post
    I see the black helicopters are inbound and with that I'm dropping out of thread. Have a nice one guys
    Dude, its the nano-bot insect RPVs! BHs are so 2000s.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Slow down, while in theory I'd like to agree with you, the 4473's are the property of the dealer, and if the dealer surrenders them willingly, then I'm not sure they were obtained illegally, per se.
    Would the list of guns he owns have to be destroyed after ascertaining that he was doing nothing illegal/the investigation was closed? Gun sales records have to be wiped clean after 24hrs (or so) right? But what good is that if they can just go and copy all the 4473s?
    I just did two lines of powdered wig powder, cranked up some Lee Greenwood, and recited the BoR. - Outlander Systems

    I'm a professional WAGer - WillBrink /// "Comey is a smarmy, self righteous mix of J. Edgar Hoover and a gay Lurch from the "Adams Family"." -Averageman

  2. #82
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    Alright I spoke to my local dealer, the C3 guy, and he said they came in 2 weeks ago looking for 4473's to pull. He also said one of them made some comment about how they could his license because they found to grammar/clerical errors in the ones they did pull. I guess he told them back that they could pull his license, and he'd just do something else for a living. Then all the guns in his shop would be his to do what he wants with them.


    But that doesn't really explain how they had documents for me from so many different dealers. He told me they were looking for people who are dealing firearms with a license but Im not quite sure how someone who purchases ~15-20 guns in a 4 year period can be construed as possible dealing. At this one dealer Ive had maybe 3 transfers and 2 or 3 buys in around a 3 year period.


    I think this entire year Ive sold maybe 2 guns but most likely one, and that was to Artos through this forum, and he is an FFL holder. A sold a few last year, and those went out to state to FFL's verified by the FFL EZ check.


    If they do come back for any reason I will not be as cooperative as I was this time. Once is plenty for them, and I was able to produce the vast majority of the firearms they had on record for me. Anything else beyond this is not acceptable.


    Im also going to write out a letter, and send it to both my House rep and my Senator. I know my House rep is VERY pro gun, and even has a picture of him with a gun on his website. I doubt they will be able to do anything but it doesn't cost me anything but 30 minutes or so to type something out.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Alright I spoke to my local dealer, the C3 guy, and he said they came in 2 weeks ago looking for 4473's to pull. He also said one of them made some comment about how they could his license because they found to grammar/clerical errors in the ones they did pull. I guess he told them back that they could pull his license, and he'd just do something else for a living. Then all the guns in his shop would be his to do what he wants with them.

    Im also going to write out a letter, and send it to both my House rep and my Senator. I know my House rep is VERY pro gun, and even has a picture of him with a gun on his website. I doubt they will be able to do anything but it doesn't cost me anything but 30 minutes or so to type something out.
    The first part, about them threatening to take his license over clerical errors, is a very real possibility. A number of dealers, especially high volume, politically unconnected dealers have lost their licenses over "clerical" errors.

    Big box stores seem to get away with it easily though.

    Let us know what kind of response you get from your Representative and your Senator. Squeaky wheel gets greased sometimes....
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

  4. #84
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    Get rid of all gun laws.

    **** Mexico.

    Don't talk too much to these people without an attorney present. They will present anything you tell them as an irrefutable admission of guilt in a court of law.

    Many of you people on this board have led very squeaky clean lives by anyone's standards. However by the certified socialist legal code that stretches to the moon and back, you have been committing multiple felonies every day. They like lots of laws, because their legal system revolves around the concept that if you show them the man to crucify, they will show you his crimes.

    Honestly, I'm beginning to think the best course of action is just to put firearms where they can't find them and tie Oliver North for saying "I can't recall". If they can't find them, they can't steal them (that goes for the common crooks and the federal crooks).

    I can't remember doing anything, ever. I only wish to serve the state. I stare at a wall all day long and sing the international. Thank you comrade, you are a credit to the state for diligently performing your duties. I hope you find all the saboteurs and reactionaries.
    "Life is short, but the years are long." - Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    But that doesn't really explain how they had documents for me from so many different dealers. He told me they were looking for people who are dealing firearms with a license but Im not quite sure how someone who purchases ~15-20 guns in a 4 year period can be construed as possible dealing. At this one dealer Ive had maybe 3 transfers and 2 or 3 buys in around a 3 year period.
    That's what worries me. If you can get targeted by this nonsense, I'd say that the majority of us are potentially at risk if the BATFE is going just on numbers of transactions.

    It's possible your name ended up on their radar another way...but knowing that they've been combing through records because of this Mexico nonsense it wouldn't surprise me if they have some sort of database that's spitting out names for them to check out because of a particular pattern they've identified.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post
    That's what worries me. If you can get targeted by this nonsense, I'd say that the majority of us are potentially at risk if the BATFE is going just on numbers of transactions.

    It's possible your name ended up on their radar another way...but knowing that they've been combing through records because of this Mexico nonsense it wouldn't surprise me if they have some sort of database that's spitting out names for them to check out because of a particular pattern they've identified.
    Come on, JW777, you know exactly what is happening. There is some "manager" who has been "tasked" with the "gun running" on the border. So to look like he is "doing something" he holds a meeting and his direct reports come up with ideas to investigate gun running. Someone suggests visiting dealers and reviewing the forms, and they go and tell supervisors to tell the street-level agents to check on it and before long they are creating binders full of Belmont's relatives.

    This is why we don't want government intrusiveness. It leads to nonsense in the name of "doing something."

    Also - I hate the intimidation they use. Show us your papers, indeed.

    B_C

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post
    That's what worries me. If you can get targeted by this nonsense, I'd say that the majority of us are potentially at risk if the BATFE is going just on numbers of transactions.

    It's possible your name ended up on their radar another way...but knowing that they've been combing through records because of this Mexico nonsense it wouldn't surprise me if they have some sort of database that's spitting out names for them to check out because of a particular pattern they've identified.
    Honestly, this freaks me out a little bit …

    I can turn a blind eye to the tinfoil … but when reasonable, responsible people start getting antsy (yeah, JW, I mean you) that just feeds the paranoia … which is generally of a very low quotient for me.

    It's the suck. I have 2 Form 1s in front of me that are going in for CLEO tomorrow and then off and up out …

    Belmont, if nothing else, thanks for being here and keeping us posted.

    ETA: Damn, can't find the Reynolds …
    Last edited by PrivateCitizen; 08-12-10 at 20:33.

    The Private Citizen
    Liberty — Independence — Responsibility — Resolve

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Business_Casual View Post
    Come on, JW777, you know exactly what is happening. There is some "manager" who has been "tasked" with the "gun running" on the border. So to look like he is "doing something" he holds a meeting and his direct reports come up with ideas to investigate gun running. Someone suggests visiting dealers and reviewing the forms, and they go and tell supervisors to tell the street-level agents to check on it and before long they are creating binders full of Belmont's relatives.

    This is why we don't want government intrusiveness. It leads to nonsense in the name of "doing something."

    Also - I hate the intimidation they use. Show us your papers, indeed.

    B_C
    In .govspeak, what you describe is called "Bean Counting".

    That ATF Inspector is proabally expected to get so many beans per month.

    He too is just numbers on a spreadsheet to someone a few levels above him.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Would the list of guns he owns have to be destroyed after ascertaining that he was doing nothing illegal/the investigation was closed? Gun sales records have to be wiped clean after 24hrs (or so) right? But what good is that if they can just go and copy all the 4473s?
    I'm wondering the same thing. If they aren't allowed to keep the records they can't possibly keep these "legally" obtained records once determining that he isn't smuggling guns to the cartels...right?

    Nonetheless, this is BS. Being an enthusiast in TX, I imagine it's only a matter of time before they visit me. As the son of a lawyer I know I shouldn't say diddly squat to them and call my lawyer, but damn it seems easier to do what Belmont did and show them the rifles/handguns/serial numbers in question.

    I'm talking to my lawyer about a trust I inherited tomorrow anyway, I'll be sure to ask about this.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Honestly, I think it's damn scary and I live my life pretty damn squeaky clean.
    I agree.

    And Belmont, you were far more cooperative and a lot more forgiving about this visit that I would have been.

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