The need for Home Defense Training

[C4IGrant]

What would the prerequisites be for this class?

Pistols only?

Any date in mind?

If Hackathorn is teaching it, basic pistol would be required I think.

We are currently thinking end of October.


C4

[Ga Shooter]

For me, finding a quality instructor is easy. I just wait and or create a HD class with Vickers or Hackathorn.





C4

I don't know if I should love you or hate you.

This fall is busy for me but maybe I can squeeze a trip in that far but probably will be next year.

[Ga Shooter]

Dave Blinder with Personal Defense Training in Norcross, GA will occasionally host Insights' Courses. Including Street and Vehicle Tactics or Home Defense Tactics. At this time, the instructor most likely to teach would be John Holschen.

I have seen them on the web but have never talked to anyone who has used them. Has anyone here heard of them?

[gringop]

I have seen them on the web but have never talked to anyone who has used them. Has anyone here heard of them?

In the past 10 or so years I've taken these classes from Insights.
Street and Vehicle
Intensive Handgun Skills
Unarmed Self Defense
Defensive Folding Knife
Handgun Retention and Disarming
Close Quarters Combat
General Defensive Rifle

Greg Hamilton and John Holshon are great instructors and have created a solid integrated set of courses. I just wish they came to Texas more often these days.

Gringop

[wedgehead30]

Grant, you're talking about extremely restricted training that the overwhelming majority of forum participants will never be able to attend.

Calling CQB training mandatory when such training is nearly nonexistent to civilians... what solution do you propose other than reading in awe?

I can only speak about my area, which is NE Ohio. But off of the top of my head I can think of at least 3 ranges within a two hour drive where anyone can show up and do some realistic training including home defense. Usually the fees are minimal, just to cover targets and other range costs. The instruction is usually more of a group effort by folks that have had more extensive training and experience. Normally a nice mix of Military, Police and Civilian backgrounds.

If you don't have anything close by, perhaps starting up your own training group would be an option? At my home range we have a nice mix of people who bring a lot of good information to the table. We try to utilize that to our best advantage. Keep in mind this is not intended to replace a solid training class from Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, etc. But there are a lot of knowledgeable people out there who are happy to pass on what has and hasn't worked for them.

Scott

[C4IGrant]

To piggy back onto this thread about the need for Civy's to get room clearing experience, we just finished up a class with M4C members out of the OH/PA/WV Regional Training Forum.

The training was held at Ft. Harmar's fantastic new shoot house in Marietta Ohio.

To put it plainly, they all got a look at the great white elephant and learned what they did not know.


C4

[Magic_Salad0892]

For once I feel like I can add something to a training discussion. (I lurk, normally don't post in the training forum.)

This isn't the best example of one man clearing in the methods talked about, more like independent combat in a hostile environment. (Very much like a BnE with multiple people.) but I feel it's better to train in LTL means (Airsoft) with live people, rather than paper targets.

In California a few years ago, I was doing airsofting pretty regularly (AR, Glock clones.) and in December of 2007, I went to place near Sacramento that was very much set up like a bank.

8 of us we ''robbers'', 8 of us were ''cops''.

The ones playing ''cops'' were a mix of local LEO, private security, and former-mil. The ''robbers'' were me and some civis. Two of which were former USMC.

The ''robbers'' objective was to break in and grab 4 duffel bags loaded with plastic balls simulating money. (Bags were between 8-15 lbs.)

The ''cops'' were to stop them.

Tactics wise, the ''cops'' were to work as a team based on training, etc. The ''robbers'' were to go in, get the objective, and get out fast. No real tactics required, just get the objective and stay alive.

See how this is similar to a break in?

We went 6 rounds. I survived 3.

My teams mistakes:

Not looking around corners, exposing one self to incoming fire, friendly fire (IE: Poor target identification), slow reloads, misplaces shots. Poor coordination in low light conditions. (When it got nighttime, we decided the robbers should cut the power, so it would be harder for everybody...)

My mistakes:

Slow reloads, moving too slow, moving too fast, attempting to take a hostage (''cop'') only to be shot in the kidney , not being quiet, friendly fire, dropping a magazine and breaking it (stupid airsoft magazines), once I ran out of ammo I picked up a weapon I was unfamiliar with and couldn't use it.

''Cops'' mistakes:

Tactically reloading full magazines, poor interpretation of the phrases ''team work'', and defensive room clearing, not scanning rooms properly (I shot two in the back because of this.), poor target identification (I shot 3 in the chest because of this.), missing under stress, friendly fire under stress.

A majority of the time, I was the last one standing. Or I wasn't remotely near the other person left. (See how this is similar to a break in?)
I survived alone once. Out of the 3 times I was alone.

It was eye opening. Even people who are trained can totally shit the bed under stress.

I'd love to read some feedback. (I've gotten a bit better, and this is why I still go airsofting. It may be lame, but it's better than shooting at the paper range. IMHO.)