The need for Home Defense Training

[Complication]

My apologies. The suggestion that Grant's post was bragging about elite high speed stuff that he and his buddies were doing struck me as a bit asinine.

Also haven't had my coffee yet.

[C4IGrant]

we are looking at starting them up in 1st quarter 2011 now that we have a place to conduct live-fire training. Before we were limited to just airsoft locations and felt the training value wouldn't be as great.



indeed it should.

One of the greatest hurdles is making sure the right people are getting into the class. For us; setting up a series of prereq's is an absolute must and is almost as hard as finding a place to teach the course.

Good. Understanding about screening folks (as you are all LE).

For a shoot house, using barrels or snow fence works fairly well (for basic type stuff) and can be moved/torn down quickly.


C4

[C4IGrant]

My apologies. The suggestion that Grant's post was bragging about elite high speed stuff that he and his buddies were doing struck me as a bit asinine.

Also haven't had my coffee yet.

No worries. We are all trying to go the same direction and fix the same issues.



C4

[Sry0fcr]

As I have learned, LE and Ex-Mil are hesitant to teach this subject for fear of what their peers will think of them. I think that this keeps a lot of the other good instructors out there (which are qualified to teach the subject) from doing it. Then we get into the problem of training facilities. Most are controlled by an LE agency (federal or state) and do NOT allow Civy's into them.

I read the title of the thread and immediately thought of the above. Most are shy about teaching tactics vs shooting. This is something that I need/want to learn because of the layout of my home if someone enters "without permission" they're going to end up being between me and my kids (if the threat isn't already in their room *shudder*)no matter what which leaves me not wanting to take a defensive position but aggressively (offensively?) seeking out and dealing with the threat RFN!

[Vinh]

The words HS and me don't go together (by the way).

Don't know about that. Saw a vid of you shooting steel with an M&P45. Very nice.

[NCPatrolAR]

Good. Understanding about screening folks (as you are all LE).

For us, we are looking at experience level and criminal background. The former isn't always a good indicator of course performance (as we all have seen) while the latter keeps some away (fear of the man in their life or not feeling they need to prove they aren't a criminal).

For a shoot house, using barrels or snow fence works fairly well (for basic type stuff) and can be moved/torn down quickly.

Scott Reitz showed me this several years ago in a carbine course. Amazing what you can do with some drums, barricades, and sticks

[RogerinTPA]

This weekend I attended a home defense course.

Home invasion scenario:
You are sitting in your living room when the lights dim or go out, followed by a crash, then BGs enter your home.

Topics covered were:
-Knowing the layout of your home.
-Low light shooting.
-Shooting on the move (to get to cover and to engage other hostiles).
-Multiple threats at various distances and various interval movement (using electric programmable target carriers) .
-Proper use of cover.
-Shooting until the threat stops.
-Search and Asses the area for more BGs.

It was an eye opener to see pretty experienced static range shooters I see so often on the range, miss completely, stand by the cover while completely exposing themselves. Not taking time to do tactical reloads to top off the weapon, opting for emergency reloads, then fumbling and losing fully loaded mags. Not searching and assessing the area for more BGs. Two were IDPA guys.

I ran the scenario twice using my M&P9c with and without the laser. I was able to get good center mass hits with the Henie 2 dot sights, with a few non lethal fliers, while moving to cover. The laser kept them right where I wanted them to go, center mass. I'm convinced while under stress, having a laser & light equipped pistol is the way to go. Time to order a few more CT lasers.

[C4IGrant]

Don't know about that. Saw a vid of you shooting steel with an M&P45. Very nice.

It really wasn't me. Was a guy that just looked like me.



C4

[Shawn.L]

the first time I went into an unknown problem and had to deal with a structure/decision making/ interact/verbailize with targets...... well, it wasnt pretty. And my little bit of ego I thought I had fell flat. That was a good thing.

I practiced, I studied, I thought about the problems a lot.

The second time I entered a "simulator" in a class, well, it still wasnt perfect, but it was much better.

"Tactics I" is an in house class hosted by The FIRE Institute that deals with the issue of structures, real life civvy problems, dealing with real time problem solving, ect ect ect... all the basics. Its a great course, and its cheap. It was canceled this year for lack of enrollment. The problem seems to be that the intructor cadre just arent cool enough, dont market well, dont do this for a living and so arent concerned with image or personalities, like old school gun handling techniques (which has no real impact on this class as its not a shooting class) and while the local area (PA) may host a HUGE number of gun owners those guys just arent generally interested in training.

Problem I personally deal with now in this enviroment:

Patience

Looking back into the back corners (a note on gun games, which I find very useful, is that you can get very used to NEVER having anything back behind the 180....)

Making the right decisions fast enough (hesitation)

[C4IGrant]

This weekend I attended a home defense course.

Home invasion scenario:
You are sitting in your living room when the lights dim or go out, followed by a crash, then BGs enter your home.

Topics covered were:
-Knowing the layout of your home.
-Low light shooting.
-Shooting on the move (to get to cover and to engage other hostiles).
-Multiple threats at various distances and various interval movement (using electric programmable target carriers) .
-Proper use of cover.
-Shooting until the threat stops.
-Search and Asses the area for more BGs.

It was an eye opener to see pretty experienced static range shooters I see so often on the range, miss completely, stand by the cover while completely exposing themselves. Not taking time to do tactical reloads to top off the weapon, opting for emergency reloads, then fumbling and losing fully loaded mags. Not searching and assessing the area for more BGs. Two were IDPA guys.

I ran the scenario twice using my M&P9c with and without the laser. I was able to get good center mass hits with the Henie 2 dot sights, with a few non lethal fliers, while moving to cover. The laser kept them right where I wanted them to go, center mass. I'm convinced while under stress, having a laser & light equipped pistol is the way to go. Time to order a few more CT lasers.

I have seen HSLD types (what I consider to be "been there and done that") types totally screw the pooch. Along with LE SWAT, civy's that run circles around me, and everything in between totally shut down and make mistakes. This is why I think it is SOOOOO important to get folks exposed to this stuff.

Lasers on pistols are like optics on a long gun. They are another MUST HAVE on a defensive pistol.


C4