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Thread: rra vs dd

  1. #1
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    rra vs dd

    i bought a rra about 4 or 5 years ago just because i wanted an ar15. over the last month or so i started researching ar15's after reading 'the chart' and some of the threads on various forums i came to the conclusion that my rra was a hobbiest gun, well i decided i wanted a professional gun so yesterday i bought a daniel defense ar15. today i disassembled both guns and compared; what i noticed after disassembly and inspection was, rra wasn't 'staked properly', it didn't have the "H" buffer and was a hell of a lot heavier. one qeustion though... what's the difference between staking and locktite? as a mechanic i don't see a problem with this, we use locktite on cylinder heads the hottest part of an enging that runs 3k rpm's on average with no problems.

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    Staking forms a mechanical interlock between the two parts, preventing the allen screws from backing out. Loctite increases the friction between the threads of the screw and the threads of the carrier. But even red loctite softens and releases at high temperatures, which is why it cannot be counted on in an AR15. Regarding cylinder head bolts, perhaps they also have locking threads or a lock washer too? I don't know.

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    perhaps i should have asked how many people have actually had a problem with these bolts backing off? there are some types of locktite that are rated for high temperatures and have proven their effectiveness.

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    Welcome to M4C!

    Dan, perhaps you got a bum steer or misunderstood the reasonings behind red loctite and castle nut comments from elsewhere.

    The problem with red loctite is that it works too good. The issue isn't about the castle nut backing off, its about getting the nut off it need be when red loctite is used. Yes you can heat the sum gun up and torque the hell out of it, but the chances of damaging the receiver, the extension tube etc, also increases.

    A mechanical bond of the castle nut and the receiver endplate is more than sufficient. A properly staked castle nut, 99.9% of the time will not allow the nut to back off under extreme conditions, yet it is easily enough removed for maintenance, replacement or modularity reasons.

    Enjoy the site!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatdan81 View Post
    perhaps i should have asked how many people have actually had a problem with these bolts backing off? there are some types of locktite that are rated for high temperatures and have proven their effectiveness.
    THIS is a good question. I'm sure someone will claim to have seen or had a failure of this type, but I NEVER have...and that's with a lot of hard use/FA/burst weapons.

    The staking is a backup to a backup in a redundant system.

    But, the AR-15 public seems to have an inordinate obsession with gas key staking.

    The obvious solution is go piston!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatdan81 View Post
    i bought a rra about 4 or 5 years ago just because i wanted an ar15. over the last month or so i started researching ar15's after reading 'the chart' and some of the threads on various forums i came to the conclusion that my rra was a hobbiest gun, well i decided i wanted a professional gun so yesterday i bought a daniel defense ar15. today i disassembled both guns and compared; what i noticed after disassembly and inspection was, rra wasn't 'staked properly', it didn't have the "H" buffer and was a hell of a lot heavier. one qeustion though... what's the difference between staking and locktite? as a mechanic i don't see a problem with this, we use locktite on cylinder heads the hottest part of an enging that runs 3k rpm's on average with no problems.
    It goes deeper than that. Your DD uses better barrel steel (and is hammer forged), everything is HPT/MPI, the chamber in your DD is going to be a true 5.56 NATO, has a Mil-Spec RE, Correct gas port size, etc, etc.


    C4

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatdan81 View Post
    perhaps i should have asked how many people have actually had a problem with these bolts backing off? there are some types of locktite that are rated for high temperatures and have proven their effectiveness.
    Tons. Common issue.



    C4

  8. #8
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    Dan, as a mechanic, ask yourself why some nuts/bolts on a racing machine are safety wired and some are loctited. you'll have your answer...
    never push a wrench...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    Dan, as a mechanic, ask yourself why some nuts/bolts on a racing machine are safety wired and some are loctited. you'll have your answer...
    good point.

    I'm not trying to start any kind of arguement, just questions. i understood the difference in material (like the barrels) and the difference in the proper chamber ect... i was just a little curious about the staking and why it was such a big deal.
    Last edited by fatdan81; 08-28-10 at 17:09.

  10. #10
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    I saw it first hand in Iraq on several of our BM carbines that were not staked properly. Thanks to Ned Christiansen I was able to speed up the process with a MOACKS rather than using a punch as I had been doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatdan81 View Post
    perhaps i should have asked how many people have actually had a problem with these bolts backing off? there are some types of locktite that are rated for high temperatures and have proven their effectiveness.



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